Desiccation ?

[FredBW]

Err lack of water?
This is my Old man of the Andes I bought last fall 50%off.
I lost one (probably it's brother) last summer from rot. And bought this one after losing that one.
I unpotted this one last fall as soon as I brought it home,and it had very few roots. I tried not to disturb the part with roots and put it back and left it alone until December when i repotted it. It had more roots than it did when I brought it home. But still not what I figure a cactus of that size should have. I put store bought mix,and a handfull of worm castings in the very bottom and put rooting hormone on the roots. And filled it the rest of the way up with my Gritty mix.
I gave it little sips of water at the first of every month all winter. I have been watering it sparingly all summer.
That ended yesterday when it was left out in an unforecasted downpour. Which it was probably time for it to get a REALLY good drink anyway.
So after writing all of that. My question is,does this look like a problem from lack of water? It has slowly been getting worse all summer.
I see no sign of insects (But that doesn't mean anything). I have kind of suspected all along it was from not enough water. But held off on water somewhat because I also suspect not enough roots. It's hard to get a picture because of hair and spines,but we'll see.
Any advice greatly appreciated

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[Steve Johnson]

I put store bought mix,and a handfull of worm castings in the very bottom and put rooting hormone on the roots. And filled it the rest of the way up with my Gritty mix.

Mix means mixing all the ingredients together, not layering like parfait. Not a catastrophic situation yet, so mix the soil and grit together. What you want is a mix that's consistent from the top to the bottom of the pot for free drainage and proper aeration of the roots, something you don't have right now. I think you have 7 or 8 weeks of summer left, and here's what I would recommend:

• Repot in the consistent mix as I just described, and do it ASAP.

• Let the roots settle in for 2 weeks, then water every 2 weeks until you're close to the end of your growing season.

My guess is that the Old Man of the Andes doesn't have much of a root system -- without enough roots to take up the water, deep watering won't be a good idea. Sips may not be enough either, so the best approach is "half-watering" -- just enough to moisten the mix without accidentally drenching it. This teases the roots into growing as they seek out water when the mix is completely dry between waterings. Not sure if your Old Man of the Andes would have enough of a root system for deep watering before the end of summer, so IMO you should be cautious about it (getting drenched by rain is counterproductive). How much water do you need to make for half-watering? Wish I could tell you, but this is something growers have to develop a feel for.

[anttisepp]

Usually they are bullet-proof fast growing monsters with large roots.
They need much space, much sun, regular watering and sometimes feeding.

[Steve Johnson]

Usually they are bullet-proof fast growing monsters with large roots.
They need much space, much sun, regular watering and sometimes feeding.

True, but Fred's layering approach worked against him. Not sure if store-bought soil at the bottom of his pot was creating a perched water table, although whether it did or not may be beside the point. Fred, please me know about what's in your gritty mix -- ingredients and proportions. It's possible that you'll be better off without the store-bought soil.

[anttisepp]

Sometimes mealybugs make very big problems with roots, are you sure the roots were healthy?

[FredBW]

Thanks for the responses.
First off. Desiccation is just MY diagnosis. And I am not positive that is the problem. I was hoping someone would agree ,or disagree from the pictures.
It has certainly been deprived of water though. Who knows how long it went at the nursery before I bought it,and then me being very cautious trying not to rot it.
When I repotted it last winter the roots it did have looked healthy,and I saw no signs of mealies.
I am reluctant to disturb the roots Steve as I don't want to disturb any progress It has made. I have a lot of other cacti growing in my gritty mix. And I feel it is so gritty that organic matter eventually washes down to the bottom mimicking what I have in the pot in question.
As I said, I am kind of looking for agreement that this IS actually a watering problem. And not some sort of fungal ,or incest problem.

I was searching "Cactus rust" on youtube last night. A lady had been trying to cure a cactus that looked a lot like this problem for years. She had tried systemic approaches and all kinds of topical approaches as well. Finally she cut the top off to try to reroot a cutting ( Both hers and mine have NO sign of this problem towards the top). At any rate what she cut off had NO sign of disease. So she sliced the leftover stalk right down the middle and it was all green healthy tissue inside. The problem was all topical.
But if this cactus had this problem last winter when I repotted it I sure didn't see it.
Temps are going to be around 100 by day and 80 by night for the next week or two. So it will be drying out from the downpour fairly quickly,and I will probably water again fairly soon.

[anttisepp]

Where did you hold it in winter and where it stays now in summer? Looks very etiolated as in deep shade.

[madkactus]

Where did you hold it in winter and where it tays now in summer? Looks very etiolated as in deep shade.

I was thinking the same thing.

[anttisepp]

I asked because I have resuscitated half died plants many times and usually they wake up very fast in good conditions. Sunlight really makes wonders with these children of sun.

[FredBW]

Where did you hold it in winter and where it stays now in summer? Looks very etiolated as in deep shade.

Thats pretty much the way I bought it. I believe there is new growth since I have had it in the top 3 or 4 inches where you can see it is greener.
It spent the winter in a cool bedroom with a picture window with southern exposure. It has spent most of the summer in direct sun,except when there is a good chance of rain when it is moved under a Gazebo. There were 4 maybe 5 of these in Nurseries around town,and they all pretty much looked like this one except the brown patches,which I'm pretty sure there were none when I brought it home.
I think I will simply give it more water,and if it rots I guess it just wasn't meant to be. If it's still alive next spring i will repot it.

[Steve Johnson]

It has spent most of the summer in direct sun,except when there is a good chance of rain when it is moved under a Gazebo. There were 4 maybe 5 of these in Nurseries around town,and they all pretty much looked like this one except the brown patches,which I'm pretty sure there were none when I brought it home.

Based on what you just said, the new top growth on your Old Man of the Andes isn't etiolated, but it isn't normal either. The brown patches indicate premature corking which is always caused by poor root growth. Are you giving the plant any fertilizer? If so, how often and what are the NPK numbers? The wrong fert (or no fert at all) leads to all sorts of trouble over time, hence my reason for asking you those questions. Your answers could be helpful.

[FredBW]

Actually I just checked my notes and I wrote down the height when I repotted it last winter. It was 23 1/2 inches above the soil line, It is now a strong 24 and 1/2. So while the top few inches have " greened up". It has only grown a little over an inch.
I have been using Espoma Organic cactus food for the most part. 1-2-2 Maybe every other week,seldom full strength. I have cut back the last month or so. I have a 55 gallon aquarium with a big fish,which is usually where the water comes from. PH just under 7. It also got a good handfull of worm castings when I repotted it.

" FRED Your cactus is corking is kind of what I wanted/needed to hear" To me the elephant in the room is the way I have been watering it. As I said I have just been giving it sips for the most part. After rotting the last one,and seeing a cactus of that size not having the roots I thought it should when I repotted it last winter. Along with high humidity,I have been "afraid" to water it. I am realizing I havn't been giving it near the water it probably should have.. I gave it one really good drink about the middle of may,and it got caught in a T storm last Monday and got drenched. I think those 2 times are the only really good drinks it has had since I had it.
I probably have another 6 weeks of warm weather left,and right now everyday is pushing 100. So my thoughts are I need to simply water it like the rest of my cacti. Let it dry out and give it a BIG drink.

[greenknight]

No calcium, no magnesium, no sulfur, and no micronutrients. Ca and Mg are important secondary major nutrients, and while it may seem minor, S is important too.

No, Dave, you're wrong (edit - oops, I meant Steve, it was very late ). Chicken manure contains a full range of minerals, commercial chicken producers add mineral supplements in addition to the minerals naturally present in the chicken feed in order to support the rapid growth of the chickens. It naturally contains plenty of sulfur, that's why it stinks so bad. Potassium sulfate is also included in the fertilizer, which provides more sulfur. Kelp extract is another ingredient, this is a mineral supplement and growth stimulant - contains every mineral found in sea water, which is every soluble mineral on earth. The fish and soy undoubtedly contain some trace minerals as well.

Organic fertilizers generally don't come with a micronutrient analysis - the levels vary. and it's not seen as necessary anyway.

If you work out the elemental NPK ratio of this product, it's within the acceptable range, but a little more N would be better.

[Steve Johnson]

No calcium, no magnesium, no sulfur, and no micronutrients. Ca and Mg are important secondary major nutrients, and while it may seem minor, S is important too.

No, Dave, you're wrong. Chicken manure contains a full range of minerals, commercial chicken producers add mineral supplements in addition to the minerals naturally present in the chicken feed in order to support the rapid growth of the chickens. It naturally contains plenty of sulfur, that's why it stinks so bad. Potassium sulfate is also included in the fertilizer, which provides more sulfur. Kelp extract is another ingredient, this is a mineral supplement and growth stimulant - contains every mineral found in sea water, which is every soluble mineral on earth. The fish and soy undoubtedly contain some trace minerals as well.

Organic fertilizers generally don't come with a micronutrient analysis - the levels vary. and it's not seen as necessary anyway.

If you work out the elemental NPK ratio of this product, it's within the acceptable range, but a little more N would be better.

Actually, it's me -- as in Steve. I just deleted the post you responded to, and I'll admit that my experience doesn't include working with organic fertilizers. However, I'd like to revisit this:

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2% P2O5 x .436 = 0.872% elemental P
2% K2O x 0.83 = 1.66% elemental K

Using N = 1 as the constant for the Espoma fert's 1-2-2 NPK ratio, the P is way too high. Acceptable range for P should be 0.25-0.35. I'm going only by the numbers in the guaranteed analysis -- is there something about the Espoma that's giving us P in the acceptable range? By the way -- if you question my assertion on acceptable range, that's fine, but please know that I didn't pull the range numbers out of thin air:

..I wonder if cacti really are just like all other plants in terms of their P requirements. Could it be that cacti do need lower P compared to nonxeric plants like orchids and African violets?

The P/N ratio of desert soils averages around the 0.3 Mark. Sometimes higher sometimes lower. Stick to around that and perhaps not much lower than 0.2 and not much higher than 0.4 .

If you do agree that the Espoma's P is too high, that can be corrected by supplementing it with ammonium sulfate. Nice thing there -- ammonium N is taken up directly by the plant, and I think Fred's Old Man of the Andes could use it.

[jerrytheplater]

The Espoma product contains soil bacteria and fungi which will metabolize the non soluble organics contained in the potting mix and fertilizer solution and make them available to the plant over time. The analysis is for the fertilizer as it is in the container, not what it will become due to bacterial action. So, it will end up being more than the label says, but I don't have any way of knowing what the final outcome will be.

I have the same product and use it mainly for the bacterial input. I don't even consider the nutrient content, since I only use a little bit and only maybe twice per season. It is not my main fertilizer.