Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

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From0to10in2weeks
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Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by From0to10in2weeks »

Hi,

I understand that making your own cactus soil is preferred. But when I looked at the availability of vermiculite or perlite in local stores (Berlin, DE) I noticed that they come in 70 - 100 liter bags. :shock: I really don't have the need nor the space for that much material.

I stumbled on the following product. Sorry it's in German but the composition apparently is clay ("Rohton"), lava and expanded clay aggregate ("Blähton"). It says that it contains little organic substance but doesn't give any info about type or amount. The pH is listed as 6.7. From the photos it looks like it would drain very well.

https://www.seramis.com/produkte/granul ... kkulenten/

Why do you think? Would you add something to it?

Thanks. Best.
DaveW
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Re: Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by DaveW »

Seramis is virtually the same as some of the molar clay based cat litters which if you can find them in supermarkets or pet stores are usually cheaper. Remember growing cacti in purely mineral soils they contain little nutrients through lacking organic matter so you need to feed them using half strength fertiliser every few watering's. You have to be careful to get the correct cat litter though since not all cat litters are the same, ranging from shredded paper to fullers earth to the correct molar clay ones.

See:-

https://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39968

The bonsai link in my post is dead, but for those in the UK Tesco is now selling it's Low Dust cat litter again after a period of months off the shelves.

See:-

https://forum.bcss.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=170205
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From0to10in2weeks
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Re: Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by From0to10in2weeks »

DaveW wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:54 am Seramis is virtually the same as some of the molar clay based cat litters which if you can find them in supermarkets or pet stores are usually cheaper. Remember growing cacti in purely mineral soils they contain little nutrients through lacking organic matter so you need to feed them using half strength fertiliser every few watering's. You have to be careful to get the correct cat litter though since not all cat litters are the same, ranging from shredded paper to fullers earth to the correct molar clay ones.

See:-

https://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39968

The bonsai link in my post is dead, but for those in the UK Tesco is now selling it's Low Dust cat litter again after a period of months off the shelves.

See:-

https://forum.bcss.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=170205
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, Seramis does not hesitate to emphasise to regularly use their fertiliser with this substrate...

And thanks for pointing out that (some) cat litter is a cheaper alternative. Though I must admit that I am at the point of just sticking with whatever commercial solution is suitable/available right now instead of adding the task of identifying the right cat litter... Time/bandwidth is the limiting factor not money. That kind of refinement may come at a later stage.

That being said: how much commercial cacti soil would one add to the Seramis mix to achieve a good balance?

Thanks. Best.
keith
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Re: Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by keith »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wOfQu1ye_k

Interesting youtube video on Seramis . I have tried turface for seedlings I don't like it causes mold. Course sand works better for me.
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From0to10in2weeks
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Re: Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by From0to10in2weeks »

keith wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:08 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wOfQu1ye_k

Interesting youtube video on Seramis . I have tried turface for seedlings I don't like it causes mold. Course sand works better for me.
Hi Keith,

Thanks for pointing me towards that video. There are a few key statements in that video:

"And we don't have Seramis. I never handled Seramis. ... I don't know anyone with Seramis. I don't want to buy Seramis. It's expensive in Europe. It's even more expensive in the US. And then I'd be left with that expensive thing I'd never use." Well then... he's arguably not in a position to judge this material. And yet, he does. As he tries to frame his reasoning in some pseudo-scientific rationale this is laughable to actual scientists (see below).

Then, there is that weird transition that seems to suggest that ceramics(!) in general can show organic growth on them. Well, sure. As far as I know that's well known with Terracotta pots as well. How that leads to the prediction at the end of the video that using Seramis may lead to moisture problems (but none of the other materials cited at the beginning of the video which are also various forms of ceramics) is beyond me.

And he states that "I am not a chemist" but then he tries to extrapolate from a calcination process of one clay type to another. That's quite... bold. Note, I am actually a PhD Chemist. For instance, his statement that kaolinite contains "crystallised water" clearly shows a lack of understanding. The formula for kaolinite actually lists OH (hydroxyl groups) and not H2O (water). There are minerals that contain water (H2O) as part of their crystal structure. But the hydroxyl groups (OH) in this clay are largely sitting at the surface of the clay particles. These surface hydroxyl groups are part of the reason why clays can be semifluid because they interact well with water. But that's water between clay particles not inside of them. In a calcination process, hydroxyl groups from one clay particle react with another eliminating water as a byproduct and forming an oxygen bridge between the particles, essentially fusing them. Hence, the dehydration(!) and densification of clays in firing yields ceramics. This is of course grossly simplified.

Anyway, that Seramis might be an overpriced version of Turface Athletics (again, there is actually no evidence in that video. It's just conjecture.) may be true. But it's also irrelevant as I am in Germany and I haven't seen such Turface product here. And the Seramis product is the closest I have seen available in stores in Berlin in small quantities that resembles in structure the substrate I see in a lot of photos on this and other forums.

That being said I learned today about Uhlig Kakteen in Southern Germany. And they indeed offer premixed soils as well as the individual soil components (perlite, pumice etc.) for cacti in small(er) quantities. But their delivery times are 12 - 20 business days...

I have no idea if Seramis is a good or bad substrate for cacti. That's why I asked. But that video is a hack job. Best.
keith
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Re: Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by keith »

That being said: how much commercial cacti soil would one add to the Seramis mix to achieve a good balance?'

My guess I don't know Seramis is 50-50 mix for most common store bought cactus and less or no commercial soil at all for tricky to grow Mexican types like epithelanthas, ariocarpus, etc.

About the Video IDK :D it's the internet :D :D sounded good ??

You want to make sure whatever you use dries out after a couple weeks and then you can adjust the water schedule around that.
DaveW
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Re: Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by DaveW »

My friend always says "you can grow cacti in pretty well anything as long as you get the watering right". Perhaps "cacti will virtually exist in anything unless rotting, since they take a long time dying" would be more correct. But staying wet too long if the substrate does not drain quickly enough or excessive watering is used is what usually finishes them off first.

All plants need food just as we do to grow. Those who grow in purely mineral soils lacking organic material need to use artificial fertilisers regularly. Those in organic mixes either not at all if re-potted regularly, or only occasionally if the plant is left in the same potting mixture for years. If your plants are thriving you are doing it right. That is provided you don't think fast year around bright green etiolated growth is healthy growth.

I must confess I have never bothered too much about different soils for different cactus genera, they all seem to grow reasonably in a well draining one just on the acid side of neutral. Never found the need to add limestone grit etc for plants that inhabit limestone in habitat.

The moral is don't get too hung up on potting soil composition. As long as they provide enough nutrients (or you provide them as fertiliser) and drain well and are a PH the plant likes they will grow for you and hopefully flower.
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From0to10in2weeks
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Re: Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by From0to10in2weeks »

Thanks DaveW for the additional perspective. I am a Newbie. So, I can't tell if what I am doing is right or wrong... That being said I made today a 2:1 mix of Seramis and a peat-free all purpose commercial soil (vegan, bio and all that jazz) I found. The water shoots right through... :D

Best.
DaveW
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Re: Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by DaveW »

Yes a good test is if you pour water on top of the pot it should disappear in about a minute and come out the drainage hole. If it stays as a puddle for much longer the potting soil may retain water too long. You can just keep adding grit or similar drainage material until the potting soil does drain that fast.
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From0to10in2weeks
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Re: Is this an acceptable commercial substrate?

Post by From0to10in2weeks »

Thanks for the calibration. The water goes straight through. As in there is no puddling. But the mix is definitely wet afterwards.

Much appreciate your feedback. Best.
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