Radiation Protection: Fact or Hoax?

Created by popular request. Share what you know about man's past and present use of cacti.
cifer
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Radiation Protection: Fact or Hoax?

Post by cifer »

Greetings!

First of all i would like to salute you all- your dedication and enthusiasm for these amazing plants is admirable. Sadly, i can't claim to be one of you anthologists- however i was brought here (via various and multiple links & searches) seeking for your wisdom.

The title says it all. I'm almost sure that this has been brought again and again within your sagely circles. But i have found no relative post or topic.

So which one is it? Are cactii really absorbing radiation from elecromagnetic sources, ie a pc screen? Is this just one of the dozens of hoaxes spread in the Web? Most importantly, can a kind soul share some links of formal studies, solid facts by creditable organizations, that could verify/discredit said fact? Because, let's be frank, if we just post our opinion or "some research that someone did", then we just help perpetuate the fact/hoax circle :)

Again, i hope you treat this stranger with respect and don't boo him out :) Bless you all!

-chris
DieTer-Xz
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Post by DieTer-Xz »

Hi! Welcome on our forum!

I have read about this rumor on the Internet and I'm curious as well. After doing some research, I only came across short references about this issue.
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:kKC ... =clnk&cd=7
http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Game ... lator.html
http://infoventures.com/emf/letters/rdrc0101.html
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:RH1 ... ersbytheme
/Heritage/Candida_Liberato.doc+radiation+cacti+electromagnetic&hl=nl&gl=nl&ct=clnk&cd=20

I hope you find this useful.
daiv
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Post by daiv »

(my very long answer -hope it helps! :) )

Chris,
I have to say I've never heard of that before. A search on Google seemed to yeild very little info.

However, I think we can apply a little of our own minds to this and logic some of it out. I doubt you will ever find a formal study on the topic.

If we do suspect hoax, then we've got to assume a motive. Although I can't see what motivates anybody to start e-mail/web hoaxes, it seems there are lots of them out there. Whatever gets them going their goal is sure -to frighten or fool as many people as possible into believing something they made up.

These seem to always play on people's emotions and therefore usually involve missing kids, religion, politics, money, something shocking, etc. The nature of e-mail and the web means there is no telling what type of people will be getting the message so the subject has to be somewhat universal. For instance a warning about cell phone solicitors appeals to a lot of people whereas touting the hazards of phonograph needles is not likely to get forwarded.

The note has to sound like uncommon knowledge while at the same time sound believable. A message that says that you are likely to get in a bad accident and die if you drink and drive is not news to anyone but it is believable. On the other hand, to say drinking more than two cups of milk and driving is equally deadly would certainly be surprising, but it simply isn’t believable. So you have to come up with something that is incredible, but plausible. Here is a third: “Drinking Red Bull energy drinks and taking ibuprofen can cause light-headed-ness and even short black-outs so don’t drive if you do this or you could die.” Here you have something that many people would have to at least think twice about. Who really knows what goes into those energy drinks? Maybe energy drinks are OK by themselves, but mixing them could cause problems.

Now we have a situation that is both new and interesting (if it were true) and possible. If you write about three or four paragraphs about this happening to someone you know and even include a picture of a wrecked automobile (which you got from the web), you now have a nice e-mail hoax to send out to the world.

So let’s look again at the elements of the Cactus/radiation situation. Here we have something everyone can relate to; the computer screen. People have questioned radiation from CRTs (cathode ray tubes) for years. My grandmother used to warn me not to sit so close to the TV when I was a kid for this reason. In addition, many people have worn themselves out staring into a computer monitor for too long and probably felt like some sort of radiation has affected them. We also have something that most people are intrigued by, but know little about –a cactus plant. These plants are succulent and spiny. They absorb water so it is not too much of a leap to imagine that they’ll absorb radiation with their thick fleshy tissue. The spines also could play a role in fending off the deadly rays. Certainly many sci-fi movies/shows have “cast” cacti for the part of alien vegetation. So we now have the ingredients of a good hoax.

We must think about how the Electro-magnetic(EM) energy would exit a computer monitor and affect us. It must travel from the emitter to the other side of the glass to make the image we see. As all EM radiation including visible light, ultraviolet, infrared, gamma, x-ray, etc it is either blocked by something directly in its path or it travels through it. This is why the dentist goes in the other room when you get x-rays. The EM radiation travels from the emitter through your head and onto the film. Some is scattered about the room and that is why you have to wear the lead vest. There is no substance known that you could place in the room that would attract the x-rays to it.

Likewise with your computer monitor. The EM radiation is primarily visible light and some infrared. This travels through the glass of your monitor and into your eyes. That is the image you are seeing. There is also no substance you could put in the room would draw the emissions away from your eyes and attract the light to it. You could put something between you and your monitor such as a piece of paper or a sheet of lead and thus block some or all of the emissions headed in your direction.

Now consider the other object in question –the cactus plant. A cactus plant is made up of primarily water, some organic molecules (such as cellulose), and maybe a few other trace chemicals. These substances will indeed block many forms of EM radiation if they are between the emitter and you. Much like you block the EM from hitting the back of your office chair while you are sitting in it. However there is no reason to think that EM radiation that is traveling towards you from your monitor will in turn be pulled into and absorbed by a cactus plant that is sitting next to your monitor. Such a substance does not exist. After all, if it did absorb the electro-magnetic radiation, you would not be able to see anything on your screen because visible light is included in the EM spectrum.

We can therefore conclude that the suggestion is a hoax. We can take that one step further and say the burden of proof falls on those who claim it to be true. After all it should be easy to demonstrate if it is a valid hypothesis.
Last edited by daiv on Wed May 03, 2006 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
cifer
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Post by cifer »

Dear Daiv

First of all i would like to thank you for your time and effort in writing this long, but pleasant, reply. Much obliged :) Your paradigms are also very pleasant and one feels tempted to go into the Internet hoax phenomenon in depth- it's really a remarkable modern trend.

I would agree with you- but only using my common sense. I will however continue to seek for an official lab research about this.

I would more readily agree that this would not be a malicious hoax, aiming to harm people. It feels much more like a case of folklore. Nobody intented to deliberately fool anyone- it was maybe based on a simple misunderstanding lost in time/place, as per an old wife's tale. Chocolate will give you acne, eating lots of carrots will grant you night-wisdom and so forth.

My 30-year old brother, a PhD marketing manager, insisted that this myth is true- pointing out that many clerks have a cactus on their desktops. Though one could smirk at their naive willingness to accept the notion, the result is positive: they actually have and tend to a small plant in their work :)

Hmm... Maybe this whole thing was set up by a cacti enthusiast! A-ha!


PS. Please update if you find anything- i'll keep checking! :) Thanks and be well.
daiv
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Post by daiv »

Well said Chris!

Very good point about folklore vs. malice. I think you are right about that.

If you do discover some official results, you must let us know too!

Although, if it turns out to be false, maybe we want to keep it secret so people grow more cacti! :lol:

Daiv
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
Spikey1007
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Post by Spikey1007 »

Well reading Daiv's post and having a very wide knowledge about science myself i would say this story is most probably porky pies (lies) i myself have studied the EM Spectrum a hell of a lot Any computer or TV screen being CTR, LCD or Plasma would probably not harm your cacti im preety sure it would help it as Health and saftey laws have restricted many screen making companys to make sure that UV radiation emitions would be kept very low from their screens, But most cacti would probably like UV radiation as it is a higher amplitude in the EM spectrum and would probably increase the rate of photosynthesis i think the only bad doseage of radiation given to cacti would be higher up in the em spectrum rather like x-rays as they can damage DNA in the cells of cacti. BUT even exposing your cacti to any extremly high amplitude of radiation in the EM spectrum being Visible light, infrared ,radio waves would probably pose problems to the cacti. monitors and tvs do not give large amounts of visible light or infrared radiation which could burn or mutate cacti. I myself have an 18.5 " monitor which sits next to my window-sill were my cacti live. I have not noticed any problems with the cacti but i will bring out my blak lite which emmits UV radiation and see what happens to my cacti i think that the cacti will thrive off this light. Plus criminals who have cannibis farms do use blak lites to radiate their plants which gets a better harvest. Im about 80% confident that cacti would LOVE to sit beside your computer monitor all day and all night.

Im would agree with Chris's post i most probably think this is more folklore.

When the word RADIATION is normaly mentioned people think of tumors and mutations which is caused by psychological fear of not fully under standing what radiation is i most probably think this story came about when a man went down to his local garden store and bought some Cactus and put it on his coffee table near his tv and some uneducated freind of his told him that the tv's radiation will damage the plants DNA or some related topic like that. Its just more missheard gossip in my opinion.
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hob
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Post by hob »

i'm a radiation monitor at a nuclear power plant,........it's what i do for a living.

assuming that they are talking about gamma emissions, as Daiv has already said, they travel in a straight line from the emmitor (in this case the screen) radiating in all directions. therefore the plant would need to be directly between you and the screen to do any good at all. (makes it difficult to see with it in the way though) :lol: as most cacti are nearly all water, and water is a good shielding material the hoax is not without some truth. however the idea that a plant can somehow divert the gamma rays away from a straight line and absorb them all is laughable.

the inverse square law states that every time you double the distance between a given point and the source you quarter the dose......i would therefore suggest that if you are worried, sitting a little further away from the screen would do more good.

it's done wonders for the sale of cereus peruvianus though (the cactus mentioned in the reports).........the local garden centers have trays full of them for sale :lol:
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daiv
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Post by daiv »

Good info guys. Nice to have someone who has real knowledge of the subject discuss it.
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Spikey1007
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Post by Spikey1007 »

As i said i would i set up my black lite (which emitts uv radiation) and turned it on every night for a week next to my cacti a week later (now) my cacti have not shown any sign of dislike to the uv light so i was 80% right.
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Post by Murph »

Spikey1007 wrote:As i said i would i set up my black lite (which emitts uv radiation) and turned it on every night for a week next to my cacti a week later (now) my cacti have not shown any sign of dislike to the uv light so i was 80% right.
Im pretty sure a Japanese scientist grew Tomato plants big enough to fill a whole room and produce about 20,000 baseball-sized cherry tomatoes per plant by blocking out all UV light, and pressurising Carbon Dioxide onto the plant.
So i thought plants can actually grow better without UV light?
Weird - a Euphorbia is not a cactus, yet a Pereskia is.
Spikey1007
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Post by Spikey1007 »

Hmm Ian did mention that too much UV is bad but then again its cacti which live in sunny places get loads of it but you mention carbon dioxide pressurized around the plants this could help the proccess of photosynthesis esspecialy at night when plants exchange the most gas through the stomata but then again my mammilaria elongata grows towads my UV light compared to my grow light! and that shows its a Positive Stimulus * opposed to a negative one, im not saying you wrong. This is inriguing tho nearly all plants including carnivourous ones all use the same technique to get energy through photosynthesis mabey cacti like it because some of the higher energy of the UV could be abosrbed by the waxy skin so making it a nice wavelength and more usefull to arrange the carbon and hydrogen molecules in the chloroplasts, still if you remember it is said that giving etiolated grow direct sun can damage the tissue of the plant and rot it and that is fastly gown tissue which has not matured and has a much softer texture and appearence so thats why UV may damage plants the thinner epidermis.

Please remember this is only a theory, i will dig around for some more info :wink:.
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hob
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Post by hob »

from a scientific point of view i would like to point out all plants absorb carbon dioxide............but none that i'm aware of have the ability to absorb radiation............sunflowers have been planted at some nuclear sites, because there is a theorey that they may absorb a certain ammount of radiation from the surrounding soil............this is however to date a matter of speculation.........with little or no factual evidence.
based on 18 years in the nuclear industry (in radiological protection) i would comment that there is to the best of my knowledge (and i should know) no such thing as a plant you can put next to a computer monitor that will protect you from any radiation that the monitor may emit.....having said that, it is a fact that cathode ray tubes do emit a certain ammount of radiation, however standing any sort of plant next to it will not make your dose any lower.

all you are likely to do to a cereus peruvianas, is to treat it badly by not giving it enough light and no winter rest in a centrally heated room.
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clemons
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Post by clemons »

i would think cacti are adapted to repeling radiation..much like they say now to eat red tomatoes becauce the skin helps protect against cancer becauce they adapted against the sun in order to survive and by eating them you gain the nutriants to help you also..im sure thet,ll find some chemical in cacti to prevent radiation damage to humans in the future..
like the farmer said to the tater,,i,ll plant ya now and i,ll dig ya later..
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Post by Spikey1007 »

Well yeah what hob said is correct they cannot lower you dose of radiation by sitting next to a monitor because none of the radiation emitted is Alpha + or
Beta - both travel in a straight line but are attacted to the oppisite charge. The radiation which comes from your monitor is electromagnetic radiation which to be presise is photons which are subatomic particles with no charge, they are given off by electrons which cannot lose energy in any other method.

PS Hob you have confused me, plants do abosorb radiation they just dont absorb the green light thats why they appear green ;).
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Post by daiv »

Spikey1007 wrote: this could help the proccess of photosynthesis esspecialy at night when plants exchange the most gas through the stomata
Remember, plants get energy the same way we do -through respiration. (C6H12O6 + 6O2 → 6CO2 + 6H2O + Energy released) The difference is that they can make the glucose that they use through photosynthesis and we can't. (6 CO2 + 12 H2O + light → C6H12O6 + 6 O2 + 6 H2O)

Note the equation for Photosynthesis is just the opposite of Respiration.

Plants do this when there is light (energy):
Carbon dioxide + Water + Energy = Glucose + Oxygen + Water

Then they do this to grow:

Glucose + Oxygen = Carbon dioxide + Water + Energy.
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