Why do novices always use clay pots?
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
Dave: Many thanks for your advice. We hope to get a Notocactus magnificus in the future. Also many thanks for the link for Terry's book. I actually saw one for sale in South Africa recently, albeit much higher than the original RRP.
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
This novice chose clay first because it seemed most pots I saw with cacti in them WERE terracotta. Until I came here. now that the hobby and itch have taken hold and I want to learn more I'm learning there more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.
Interesting debate though!
Interesting debate though!
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
I still use some clay pots for some of my cacti. These do better aeration for soil and roots but dry out little faster then plastic ones. Just make some different watering for those plants. Also I painted some of those pots so they are not worse then other kinds, just are heavier and more breakable.
I've got some biodegradable pots also in use for my indoor cacti, still holding for 3 or more years.
BTW, it should be no clay in North America, because all pots I could buy here in Canada had been made in France, Germany or Italy..
I've got some biodegradable pots also in use for my indoor cacti, still holding for 3 or more years.
BTW, it should be no clay in North America, because all pots I could buy here in Canada had been made in France, Germany or Italy..
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
Strange to say I found some clay pots I bought plants in the UK whilst looking "normal brown clay" were in fact non porous. I presume from the link below even though looking like conventional earthenware pots they should be termed stoneware:-
http://kawarthapottersguild.com/pottery-terms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Evidently porosity of clay pots depends on the temperature they are fired at, so don't presume all clay pots have the same porosity just because they look similar.
http://kawarthapottersguild.com/pottery-terms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Evidently porosity of clay pots depends on the temperature they are fired at, so don't presume all clay pots have the same porosity just because they look similar.
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
Hi.
I'm using spray acrylic on the outside of my clay pots for water proofing purposes but, should I spray the inside of the pots as well?
Thanks
I'm using spray acrylic on the outside of my clay pots for water proofing purposes but, should I spray the inside of the pots as well?
Thanks
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
I used clay pots as a novice in the 1960's because there were no plastic ones then. However changed to plastic as soon as they became available, since normal clay pots quickly lost favour in the UK when people changed to cleaner plastic ones, therefore you saw many old clay ones dumped in skips (dumpsters) as people got rid of them.
As with all things there has been a bit of a retro revival where new ones were made simply for their antique looks. However due to traditional ones laminating when left out in the frost because of water in the clay walls freezing, frost proof ones were soon produced. However being fired at a higher temperature to stop the walls absorbing water and freezing obviously these are non porous even though they look the same.
I think many swearing by porous clay pots if they actually tested them might find the modern ones are no more porous than plastic ones, at least in the UK. An easy way to tell if your clay pot is porous is if in use it soon produces a white lime like coating on the outside of the pot, which has to be repeatedly cleaned off to keep them clean looking. If it does not the pot is no more porous than a plastic one.
https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/gard ... cotta-pots
At one time you could not give away the old clay pots in the UK, now some sell them on EBAY. However the modern clay ones look the same, but being frost proof it means unlike the old originals they are non porous, so don't produce efflorescence.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw ... s&_sacat=0
As with all things there has been a bit of a retro revival where new ones were made simply for their antique looks. However due to traditional ones laminating when left out in the frost because of water in the clay walls freezing, frost proof ones were soon produced. However being fired at a higher temperature to stop the walls absorbing water and freezing obviously these are non porous even though they look the same.
I think many swearing by porous clay pots if they actually tested them might find the modern ones are no more porous than plastic ones, at least in the UK. An easy way to tell if your clay pot is porous is if in use it soon produces a white lime like coating on the outside of the pot, which has to be repeatedly cleaned off to keep them clean looking. If it does not the pot is no more porous than a plastic one.
https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/gard ... cotta-pots
At one time you could not give away the old clay pots in the UK, now some sell them on EBAY. However the modern clay ones look the same, but being frost proof it means unlike the old originals they are non porous, so don't produce efflorescence.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw ... s&_sacat=0
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CoffeeAddict
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:55 am
- Location: Chicago, Illinois US
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
Presentation. I see so many great cactus plants in cheap crappy black square plastic pots, it saddens me. Is this what we are down to? Plastic crap or nice terra cotta?
I will stick to the terra cotta then. Just my two cents
I will stick to the terra cotta then. Just my two cents
Joe
Zone 5a/5b
Zone 5a/5b
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
As DaveW says, most modern ceramic pots are non-porous/waterproof/frost-proof. Even if the ceramic itself isn't, glaze always is (as long as its consistently applied). Porosity depends on firing temperature, the type of clay itself, any ingredients added to the clay to help firing etc, and how much the clay is worked.
Bare pots are more of a mixed bag. The cheapest ones, which seem to be available everywhere in the UK, are generally porous but there are odd exceptions (for apparently no reason), and some are more porous than others. I find them useful for my windowsill growing, where air flow is very low and I need the help with making sure the soil/compost dries out. Even then, my Ophthalmophylum only gets watered two or three times a year, whereas I can use plastic pots with my thirsty Trichocereus (in fact they much prefer plastic/non-porous).
I consider the use of pots to be as personal as use of substrate/soil/compost - some people will use porous terracotta, some will use non-porous pots of various kinds, the important thing is to know the properties of what you're using, and what you're trying to achieve.
Another thing to consider is that clay pots of all kind heat up and cool down much slower than thin plastic, which can be important in some areas.
Bare pots are more of a mixed bag. The cheapest ones, which seem to be available everywhere in the UK, are generally porous but there are odd exceptions (for apparently no reason), and some are more porous than others. I find them useful for my windowsill growing, where air flow is very low and I need the help with making sure the soil/compost dries out. Even then, my Ophthalmophylum only gets watered two or three times a year, whereas I can use plastic pots with my thirsty Trichocereus (in fact they much prefer plastic/non-porous).
I consider the use of pots to be as personal as use of substrate/soil/compost - some people will use porous terracotta, some will use non-porous pots of various kinds, the important thing is to know the properties of what you're using, and what you're trying to achieve.
Another thing to consider is that clay pots of all kind heat up and cool down much slower than thin plastic, which can be important in some areas.
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
One of the reasons in the UK for plastic was as long as the pot was clean and neat it did not figure in the marking of plants in cactus shows. In fact an over ornate pot could detract from the entry since we Brits considered they were Cactus and Other Succulent shows and not "flower arrangers" or "ceramic shows", therefore only the plant itself mattered.
This was different to stories we heard of the USA where often the pot cost more than the plant and was intended to influence the judge, rather more than the actual plant in it. Rather akin to the vase flowers are in being more important than the flowers in a flower show. In fact again in the UK often standard metal green vases were provided in flower shows so the vase played no part in the judging. All our judges for Society shows have to be accredited and pass a judges course so they judge by the same standards. A non accredited judge could not just be conscripted, no matter how long they had grown plants in order to just judge them by their own personal criteria, certainly not admiring the pot more than the plant.
I certainly prefer cacti in clean plastic pots to the old lime encrusted porous clay pots we used to have. My point was the modern clay pots may stay clean and pretty looking, but that is often at the expense of their previous porosity, even though some collectors using these still claim their porosity is why they use them. If you are growing in clays for their looks all well and good, but if solely for porosity reasons do make sure your pots are actually porous. If they are they should regularly develop white efflorescence on their outside surface as the evaporating water leaves the dissolved salts behind.
An interesting quote from the following link referring to "breathable walls" of clay pots:-
"It should be noted that, although the pourous clay pot will allow the passage of water through the pot wall, it is not permeable to air. The improvement in media aeration when using clay pots is solely due to loss of water by evaporation and it's replacement with air drawn down from the media (soil) surface"
Again breathable walled clay pots are another Gardeners Myth, just as with a layer of gravel in a pot providing better drainage which science has disproved. Also if air is to be drawn down from the potting soil surface it also needs to be a free draining gritty mix.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0-H ... &q&f=false
It is interesting to note that the differential of water loss of clay to plastic is greater in winter, which may be significant for normal plants watered all year around, but less significant for cacti where we allow the soil to go completely dry over winter. Also as pointed out soil mixture's in plastic pots should be quicker draining and more gritty to compensate for less evaporation in plastics, but that's the very thing we now do with purely mineral composts, therefore clay pot growers should perhaps go back to the old gardeners soil based composts if using clay to compensate for the pots drying out much quicker in warmer climates?
Again if you are using clay pots for their aesthetics OK but if for their permeability make sure yours are permeable and regularly produce inflorescence on the outside, since if not you may as well be using glazed ceramics or plastic.
This was different to stories we heard of the USA where often the pot cost more than the plant and was intended to influence the judge, rather more than the actual plant in it. Rather akin to the vase flowers are in being more important than the flowers in a flower show. In fact again in the UK often standard metal green vases were provided in flower shows so the vase played no part in the judging. All our judges for Society shows have to be accredited and pass a judges course so they judge by the same standards. A non accredited judge could not just be conscripted, no matter how long they had grown plants in order to just judge them by their own personal criteria, certainly not admiring the pot more than the plant.
I certainly prefer cacti in clean plastic pots to the old lime encrusted porous clay pots we used to have. My point was the modern clay pots may stay clean and pretty looking, but that is often at the expense of their previous porosity, even though some collectors using these still claim their porosity is why they use them. If you are growing in clays for their looks all well and good, but if solely for porosity reasons do make sure your pots are actually porous. If they are they should regularly develop white efflorescence on their outside surface as the evaporating water leaves the dissolved salts behind.
An interesting quote from the following link referring to "breathable walls" of clay pots:-
"It should be noted that, although the pourous clay pot will allow the passage of water through the pot wall, it is not permeable to air. The improvement in media aeration when using clay pots is solely due to loss of water by evaporation and it's replacement with air drawn down from the media (soil) surface"
Again breathable walled clay pots are another Gardeners Myth, just as with a layer of gravel in a pot providing better drainage which science has disproved. Also if air is to be drawn down from the potting soil surface it also needs to be a free draining gritty mix.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0-H ... &q&f=false
It is interesting to note that the differential of water loss of clay to plastic is greater in winter, which may be significant for normal plants watered all year around, but less significant for cacti where we allow the soil to go completely dry over winter. Also as pointed out soil mixture's in plastic pots should be quicker draining and more gritty to compensate for less evaporation in plastics, but that's the very thing we now do with purely mineral composts, therefore clay pot growers should perhaps go back to the old gardeners soil based composts if using clay to compensate for the pots drying out much quicker in warmer climates?
Again if you are using clay pots for their aesthetics OK but if for their permeability make sure yours are permeable and regularly produce inflorescence on the outside, since if not you may as well be using glazed ceramics or plastic.
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ElieEstephane
- Posts: 2909
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:10 am
- Location: Lebanon (zone 11a)
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
I have tried both (plastic and porous clay) and found clay to be terrible overall. It was very hard for plants to suck up water efficiently when the pot will overheat and dry quickly (even with more compost). Smaller plants of the same species outgrew the ones in clay by miles. However i have a few plants in porous clay (less than 5%) only because i don't have many small pots (less than 3") so i tend to use clay cups and similar items. If i ever use larger clay pots i make sure i seal them before i use them.
The only disadvantage of plastic pots is that old ones can break easily if you hold them wrong and will spill their contents.
On the other hand, i have a handful of larger landscape plants that i now have in plastic pots but they look "cheap" compared to the plant itself. So in the near future, i plan to move them to large clay or cement pots since plastic pots will deteriorate easily in full sun and become very unsightly and repotting large plants is very hard (especially a large bougainvillea with extremely sensitive roots)
The only disadvantage of plastic pots is that old ones can break easily if you hold them wrong and will spill their contents.
On the other hand, i have a handful of larger landscape plants that i now have in plastic pots but they look "cheap" compared to the plant itself. So in the near future, i plan to move them to large clay or cement pots since plastic pots will deteriorate easily in full sun and become very unsightly and repotting large plants is very hard (especially a large bougainvillea with extremely sensitive roots)
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a)
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a)
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
We used to be able to get what were known as BEF terracotta coloured polypropylene square pots which were not so subject to UV degradation, and I have some over ten years old in the greenhouse with only the odd one starting to deteriorate. The cheaper polystyrene ones (the dense polystyrene plastic, not the foamed expanded polystyrene) which gardeners and nurserymen use don't last long in the sun in the greenhouse since nurserymen expect to have sold the plant in the pot before it breaks, rather than have it hanging around in their greenhouse for years as collectors do.
I can understand those of you growing in warm countries who put plants outside, or have the pots widely spaced with the sun on them having plastic pots overheating, or quickly deteriorating, but those of us in cooler countries who need greenhouses usually pack our pots in tightly since staging space is at a premium. Particularly for those with heated greenhouses, therefore it is usually just the pot rim exposed to the sun that goes brittle after time. That can be a problem though since we usually pull tightly packed pots out of the staging with pliers or surgical tongs using the rim. OK if the rim breaks before you have lifted the plant up, but if it does it in mid air the plant falls on the others.
Not much space between the pots in my 18 foot greenhouse. As you can see I usually prefer dozens of smaller plants like Lophophora's, Turbinicarpus, Mammillaria's, Rebutia's, Sulcorebutia's etc to a lot of tall Cerei or Opuntia's, though there are some on the other staging along with Eriosyce, Gymnocalycium's etc. Probably about 30% of the plants have been grown from seed over the years. The bubble wrap insulation is UV stabilised therefore left up all year and is just starting to deteriorate after about 6 years. The non UV stabilised bubble wrap only lasted two years before it deteriorated. For scale the bottom staging is 3ft wide and the shelf about 18 inches.
I can understand those of you growing in warm countries who put plants outside, or have the pots widely spaced with the sun on them having plastic pots overheating, or quickly deteriorating, but those of us in cooler countries who need greenhouses usually pack our pots in tightly since staging space is at a premium. Particularly for those with heated greenhouses, therefore it is usually just the pot rim exposed to the sun that goes brittle after time. That can be a problem though since we usually pull tightly packed pots out of the staging with pliers or surgical tongs using the rim. OK if the rim breaks before you have lifted the plant up, but if it does it in mid air the plant falls on the others.
Not much space between the pots in my 18 foot greenhouse. As you can see I usually prefer dozens of smaller plants like Lophophora's, Turbinicarpus, Mammillaria's, Rebutia's, Sulcorebutia's etc to a lot of tall Cerei or Opuntia's, though there are some on the other staging along with Eriosyce, Gymnocalycium's etc. Probably about 30% of the plants have been grown from seed over the years. The bubble wrap insulation is UV stabilised therefore left up all year and is just starting to deteriorate after about 6 years. The non UV stabilised bubble wrap only lasted two years before it deteriorated. For scale the bottom staging is 3ft wide and the shelf about 18 inches.
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ElieEstephane
- Posts: 2909
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Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
what kind of mammillarias do you grow Dave?
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a)
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a)
Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
I like the larger flowered Baja California Mammillaria's, but pretty well any. As long as it is a cactus I have probably tried it in the past, but never succumbed to growing Other Succulents.
Mammillaria estabanensis.
Mammillaria lenta.
Mammillaria sanchez-mejoradae.
Mammillaria pectinifera (white flowered form)
Mammillaria estabanensis.
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Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
I also use square pots to save space these are 2.5" plastic rose pots. If I could find bigger square plastic pots I would use them for sure. Bigger plastic pots would have to be sturdy because the plant weighs more as the pot size goes up. I do have some nice round plastic 4" pots made of a thicker type of plastic, I think they are called "cans" . Anderson die company makes them but they are round. And I have some 6" round plastic "cans" that I like. Big square plastic pots that are sturdy ? Don't know where to find them. So for heavier bigger cactus I use clay pots.
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greenknight
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Re: Why do novices always use clay pots?
Many available online, just search for greenhouse supplies. Of course, then you're buying sight unseen, quality may vary. Most of those outlets don't specify who manufactures their pots.
Anderson does make good quality pots. I checked their web site, they make square pots up to 4 1/8". Only licensed nurseries can order from them directly, though, but there's a list of retailers on the web site.
Anderson does make good quality pots. I checked their web site, they make square pots up to 4 1/8". Only licensed nurseries can order from them directly, though, but there's a list of retailers on the web site.
Spence