Geohintonia! Etc.!

[Steve Johnson]

Wow, that was exciting (read "nerve-wracking" )! The eBay auction I put on bid is a Geohintonia mexicana. Early this afternoon it looked like I would win the bid handily. Then a bidding war started 2 hours before the auction was due to close. Pretty rare to find them as grown plants here in the US, more so when they're on their own roots. My suspicion is that I was bidding against more than merely casual hobbyists who knew exactly what they were after. And those guts of mine haven't been so sorely tested in a long time. We'll chalk it up to a mix of growing confidence and Christmas "cactus fever" that wouldn't allow those competing bidders to get the best of me -- literally just minutes before the clock ran out!

Anyway, without further ado I give you my latest acquisition:



The plant appears to be a very well-grown seedling. The seller is TD Cacti in Lakeport, CA. I just emailed them a few questions, so I'll find out about its age and size. Without going into the details, this is the most expensive cactus I have been or am likely to purchase. But my reason for wanting it has some personal history in back of this...

I've been absolutely fascinated by Aztkekium ritteri ever since I saw one as a youngster. Over the years, I wanted to try and find one, but virtually impossible. It's perhaps the rarest species I know of, and when we do find them, they're almost always grafted. (Those of you who know A. ritteri will understand why.) If you're incredibly fortunate enough to find a plant on its own roots, you may want to know that the species has a poor survival rate under cultivation when they're rooted. Thanks to my time on the forum, I was alerted to A. hintonii and Geohintonia mexicana as possible candidates I would gratefully accept to be wonderful substitutes for the "holy grail" cactus I finally stopped questing after. Now I look forward to getting a Geohintonia of my very own. I know it seems silly, but I can't put a price on the experience that now has me 3-for-3 on eBay.

I'll be heading out of town right after Christmas to see an old friend until I'm back Sunday. When I emailed TD, I requested them to make sure the shipment doesn't hit my doorstep while I'm gone, so I'll post up a photo of the lovely gem when I have it live and in person (hopefully in time for New Year). Until then, you'll just have to make do with ogling the cacti I received over the weekend from M2G and MG. Since you saw a pic of my prize from eBay, this brings us to the Etc.

This morning I went out to the California Cactus Center in Pasadena for some pot-shopping. Man, did I luck out! They set me up with glazed ceramic pots in just the right sizes I was looking
for -- 7 pots for the 7 cacti that are being transplanted as we speak, plus a few pots I'm holding in reserve for March. Unfortunately, when I came back the afternoon got away from me before I had enough time to pot more than 3 of the plants as the failing light made it impossible for decent photography. I'll pot up the other 4 tomorrow morning, then I'll post photos of all the new charges as they settle in for the Winter on my plant bench. At least I can show you the pots:



When those pots are filled, you'll get to see what goes in where.

Cheers!

[Snowcat]

That Geohintonia is indeed a rare find! It is much more rare then Aztekium Ritteri here in Russia. And it's ten times more rare to be on it's own roots. I wish you luck with that one!

[DaveW]

It's surprising to us in Europe, particularly the EU, that though you come from the Americas where cacti grow, plus have an ideal climate for raising them that you cannot obtain the plants of your own continent when they are fairly easily obtainable here in Europe if you know where to look.

I raised both Geohintonia and Aztekium hintonii quite easily from seed about 5 years ago, but unfortunately lost my Geohintonia about the size you just obtained in our bad winter a year or two ago. The Aztekium (still on it's own roots) flowered regularly for the last couple of years and if had been seedling grafted would probably have flowered sooner.

I cannot understand how you in an ideal seed raising climate with fast growing conditions never raise this stuff from seed yourselves and swap it between you? Maybe it is because you have in the past had cheap ready grown plants from habitat which we Europeans did not have, so have never got into the seed raising habit, therefore are always in a hurry for mature plants. However we have to face that due to legal restrictions the days of freely obtaining habitat plants are drawing to a close and somebody is going to have to raise them from seed or cuttings, therefore you may as well start now as nurserymen will not always raise the plants you want.

One advantage is seed is freely available for most species internationally, even if nursery grown plants cannot be internationally imported. Grafting can push plants on quickly and then they can be de-grafted and rooted down. If you want other people to put in the effort of doing that for you expect to pay through the nose for obtaining ready made plants. Just think though, once seed becomes available at a reasonable price if you wait another five years or more before you obtain a five year old seedling you could have grown your own in that time for a fraction of the cost.

As an example one of our dealers David Quail (Aristocacti) grows all his own sales plants from seed and now even produces the seed for re-sowing from seedlings he originally grew:-

http://www.aristocacti.co.uk/aristoc2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is his method of raising such plants from seed:-

http://www.living-rocks.com/quail2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Agreed Aztekium ritterii is usually found grafted, so reasonably easily obtainable within the EU. But grafted it produces quite a few offsets through doing so, therefore you can eventually take one off and root it down whilst the mother plant will continue to produce even more for propagation and swapping for other plants you want.

[Thord Hakansson]

Geohintonia might be a bit hard to grow on on own roots but if you succed it will have very nice flowers. It will also grow a very big root so a deep pot is needed .A.hintoni is very easy on own roots ,grows relatively fast and is a prolific flowerer.Highly recommended!

[AKNicolle]

Congrats on the new addition! I've been following their auctions again lately, and wondered why these ones in particular go for such huge sums. They had another one earlier this month that resulted in a similar bidding frenzy. And I thought the Whitesloanea crassa was rare. Wow!

They always seem to have a bunch of great plants on offer, and I've been pleased with how well they pack for shipping, especially in these winter months.

[hendryterok]

Steve, you make me jealous with your new addition..my friend

Cheers
Hendry

[CactusFanDan]

Nice purchase, Steve. That's a nicely grown plant. Aztekium hintonii doesn't seem to be much of a problem on it's own roots and seems to pop up fairly often. I've had much more difficulty sourcing A. ritteri on it's own roots here. Yavia cryptocarpa should be next on your list, I reckon Steve. Yavia might not be available from anywhere in the US, since it's quite rare here too. A nice species though. Maybe you can think about that once you've mastered the Geohintonia! Good luck.

[Steve Johnson]

Thanks for the nice responses, everyone! Yavia did come up on my radar screen as an item of interest. Unfortunately the growing space I'm limited to (and believe me, I'm very limited! ) feels smaller and smaller every time I think about all the cacti I'd like to keep if I owned my property. With that said, my best friend and his family set me up with an apartment situation most renters in L.A. would kill for. After having to be away from the hobby for 20 years, I'm just happy that I've got a a collection at all. To quote a famous Rolling Stones classic -- "you can't always get what you want, but when you try sometimes, you get what you need." Kinda hate to end this post on a down note, but...

I cannot understand how you in an ideal seed raising climate with fast growing conditions never raise this stuff from seed yourselves and swap it between you?

The particular challenges I have to deal with would apply to most apartment-dwellers who may have a tough time being able to maintain a proper seeding growing setup. However, I can only speak for myself -- not what the US cactus hobby does in general. In the absence of getting a "big picture" view on the whole subject, I would hesitate to paint with such a broad brush.

[DaveW]

Most Yavia's available in the UK seem to be grafted, but as with everything you can de-graft if you want. I flowered my previous Yavia, but not flowered the latest one yet. Eriosyce (Rimacactus) laui is also usually available grafted since it can be propagated quicker that way.

However if you want plants on their own roots, as said before, most of these more uncommon plants are now available as seed, particularly from the Czech and E. European seedsmen which you have no problem importing.

http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/ERIOSY ... e_laui.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/YAVIA/ ... ocarpa.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And of course Digitostigma (Astrophytum) caput-medusae is generally propagated by tubercle grafting, but is available from seed and in the EU also on it's own roots as small seedlings.

http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/ASTROP ... edusae.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Generally speaking you will obtain newly introduced ready made plants no quicker than growing your own when seed first appears, since the nurserymen need to grow them from seed too, but they will often stick to the mass sales type plants they can raise quickly rather than those that are slower growing for specialist collectors. The only way to mass produce them commercially is often by grafting.

As to seed raising, many do it successfully on their windowsills without needing elaborate setups.

[BarryRice]

I cannot understand how you in an ideal seed raising climate with fast growing conditions never raise this stuff from seed yourselves and swap it between you? Maybe it is because you have in the past had cheap ready grown plants from habitat which we Europeans did not have, so have never got into the seed raising habit, therefore are always in a hurry for mature plants. However we have to face that due to legal restrictions the days of freely obtaining habitat plants are drawing to a close and somebody is going to have to raise them from seed or cuttings, therefore you may as well start now as nurserymen will not always raise the plants you want.

Hey Dave, easy on the guy. No need to rain on his parade! Looks like he's wanted this plant, saw one, and bought it. No big deal. I've got a couple of rarities on my list, like x Ferobergia and Frailea castanea--if I can get them by seed, I will, but if I see a nice specimen that fits in my budget, I'd do that too!

By the way---making broad generalizations about growers can be dangerously unsupportable. For example, I'm a cactus grower of less than five years experience---your timeline of changing plant availability seems irrelevant to me.

[DaveW]

The point I am making Barry is that you in the US seem to be chasing expensive ready made plants that have been freely available from seed internationally for years simply because none of you seem to want to set them yourselves, but hope your nurserymen will have in the past. Many are not that rare in Europe simply because amateurs do set and raise them themselves. You can always set seed and if later you see a chance to obtain a ready made larger plant grab it. You have really lost nothing since your seedlings have a value either as sales plants or swaps therefore will help pay for your ready made plant, and of course you may never find that ready made plant you are looking for anyway if nobody else in your country is bothering to set it either.

If you have been growing cacti five years Barry you certainly should be into seed raising by now. I know I started setting seed the second year I joined our British Cactus Society and received their annual seed list, and that was over 50 years ago now. That was the only way to obtain the more desirable plants in those days anyway since nurserymen tend to only grow mass market plants. Also don't be insular and expect seed to always be available in your own country, try the foreign seed firms too. We in Europe think nothing of obtaining seed from firms in the US, so why should you have a problem obtaining it from Europe? No seeds man will list everything, you have to search for it internationally. It used to be far harder in the past when we did not have downloadable seed lists on the web, or PayPal to pay for them.

I remember when I started buying seed internationally in the 1960's simply stapling a £1 note to my order to Germany. Belgium or the USA in payment since it saved me commission on International Money Orders, nor was it ever refused, or ever lost in the post, and those were the days pre the Euro when every European country had their own currency.

We all pay what we need to obtain the plants we want, but life's too short to hang about hoping someday you will obtain a ready made plant or something you desire in future. I am suggesting you simply use the "belt and braces" approach and if you can find seed set it now and hopefully by the time you do find a plant yours will already be bigger anyway. If not buy that and sell or swop your seedlings.

You only have to see Ian's posts of some of the plants he has raised from seed to note these are often far better than anything you will get off EBAY.

[BarryRice]

Hey Dave

I am not at all disagreeing with your arguments regarding the benefits of growing from seed. I'm simply taking umbrage to your overly broad generalizations (set in bold, for clarity):

"The point I am making Barry is that you in the US seem to be chasing expensive ready made plants that have been freely available from seed internationally for years simply because none of you seem to want to set them yourselves, but hope your nurserymen will have in the past .... and of course you may never find that ready made plant you are looking for anyway if nobody else in your country is bothering to set it either."

If that indeed is your point, you can be comforted by the following image I just took of my seed propagation area:

image.jpg (48.85 KiB) Viewed 3296 times

So you see, you can avoid making such generalizations, having seen proof that at least some of us over here raise plants from seed, as well as buy plants!

And I can do you one better--since I am fortunate enough to help manage a large University plant collection, I prefer to generate the very seeds themselves, from crosses I make! Pretty surprising, for what you might dismiss as an impatient Yankee grower!

[CactusFanDan]

That's all well and dandy Barry, but I bet you are the minority of cactus growers in the US that actually grow plants from seed. Even in the UK, people that grow from seed are probably the minority. However, I agree that sometimes if you see a nice specimen plant you just have to buy it, or perhaps something nice and fairly uncommon.

[sabotenmen]

Oh boy, Oh boy, Oh boy. It turns out that Barry is growing plants from seed after all, so he’s acquitted. But the majority of US growers are not! “They buy “ready made" plants. Call the FBI! Put them behind bars!” Give me a break, guys! I am not interested in setting seeds. I want one or two specimen of a species and not twenty or two hundred. If I see a nice plant somewhere (the bigger, the better), I buy it. Should I be handcuffed for that? Buying large plants isn't even always more expensive than growing from seed. Last summer I saw a large Grusonii. It was really cheap. I have already spent more money on expensive soil and expensive pots on my Grusoniis by potting on and they're still smaller than the one I saw for sale.Swapping or selling plants? For that you'd need a large network of people you know that grow plants. Or you would have to join a club.Why? Why not just buy reasonably sized plants? I saw a very large Ferocactus for a reasonable price somewhere.I don't have a car,so I didn't buy it (it was too heavy for me to carry )

[Snowcat]

Why not just buy reasonably sized plants?

How true! Take my large Melo for example... How old is it, being sized like a small melon? I think 10-12 years at least. Well, I COULD grow one from seeds, true, but hey, waiting 12 years is WAY too long