Hey everyone,
I am planning to get back into C&S (mostly lithops and Stenocactus) and was wondering/need clarification on a few things. When I had lithops before I literally just planted them in store brought potting soil and never fertilized. They did flower every year (lasting about five or six days) so I guess the watering and light/temp cycles were fine - nothing I did - I basically neglected them. Now I would like to try from seed (just ordered a bunch) and would like to be a little more sophisticated in my approach this time. For the soil mix I was going to use a 1 part potting soil : 1 part pumice mix. Pumice is hard to get in Ontario so...
1) I was wondering if anyone uses or heard of "Dry Stall" (horse bedding) as a source of pumice? If so is it of the right size or what size would be best?
2) Also, I am planning on using "Schultz Cactus Plus" 2-7-7 as a fetilizer a couple of times a year. Would I need to dilute this or just use it per the manufacturers instructions?
Thanks in advance
Cheers,
Looking for some guidance
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Devonaster
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:22 am
- Location: Ontario
Well hello and welcome! Glad to hear you're getting back into things.
I'm going to move this post over to the Succulent Growing Help section to help it get better response to your lithops question.
Some of the guys here really know lithops so I'm sure you will be enlightened.
I'm going to move this post over to the Succulent Growing Help section to help it get better response to your lithops question.
Some of the guys here really know lithops so I'm sure you will be enlightened.
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
The Dry Stall should be fine. And it should be fine enough for your needs.
For small seedlings, I would suggest a more balanced fertiliser used very dilute and more frequently. I use 7:7:7 at around 50-100ppm with most waterings during the first growing season, and a little less often the second year. Adult Lithops I rarely fertilise, although they probably do get some once or twice a year.
For small seedlings, I would suggest a more balanced fertiliser used very dilute and more frequently. I use 7:7:7 at around 50-100ppm with most waterings during the first growing season, and a little less often the second year. Adult Lithops I rarely fertilise, although they probably do get some once or twice a year.
--ian
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Devonaster
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:22 am
- Location: Ontario
Thanks! I'll go ahead and buy the pumice.
iann - I am curious about your suggestion to use a 7-7-7 fertiliser (I'll spell it the Commonwealth way this time
). I have read for c&s that lower nitrogen is better? Could I always use 7-7-7 for Lithops and Stenocactus even after the first few years (once or twice a year like you said) or would it be better to switch to a 2-7-7 then? And I hate to admit it but 7-7-7 at 50-100ppm - I don't understand the math. Would Miracle Gro African Violet Plant Food 7-7-7 be fine? Sorry if my questions are lame but I am just tring to understand things better.
Cheers
iann - I am curious about your suggestion to use a 7-7-7 fertiliser (I'll spell it the Commonwealth way this time
). I have read for c&s that lower nitrogen is better? Could I always use 7-7-7 for Lithops and Stenocactus even after the first few years (once or twice a year like you said) or would it be better to switch to a 2-7-7 then? And I hate to admit it but 7-7-7 at 50-100ppm - I don't understand the math. Would Miracle Gro African Violet Plant Food 7-7-7 be fine? Sorry if my questions are lame but I am just tring to understand things better.Cheers
The 7-7-7 (or 20-20-20, anything balanced) is just for seedlings. Seedlings are growing vigorously, by cactus and Lithops standards, and need nitrogen to do that. They also need it fairly regularly since they don't have a big taproot or large body to feed off. Everyone has their own tastes, but I find that Lithops are happy to grow rapidly for the first 1-2 years, especially the first six months, and I'm often surprised to see other people's pinpricks at 2 years old when I'm thinking about flowers for the next season.
Larger plants, mature Lithops and slow-growing cacti especially, need less nitrogen. Too much nitrogen can produce overly rapid lush growth that is susceptible to rot, scorch, or cold damage. Other species like shrubby mesembs, jungle cacti, and fast growers like some columnars will do better with more nitrogen. You will have to judge what works best based on your growing conditions and soil. For example, fresh rainwater usually contains nitrogen, just a little but it may be all that a mature cactus needs. Loam based soils retain nutrients very well but not nitrogen. I know growers who provide very dilute nitrogen, but nothing else, with every watering.
Larger plants, mature Lithops and slow-growing cacti especially, need less nitrogen. Too much nitrogen can produce overly rapid lush growth that is susceptible to rot, scorch, or cold damage. Other species like shrubby mesembs, jungle cacti, and fast growers like some columnars will do better with more nitrogen. You will have to judge what works best based on your growing conditions and soil. For example, fresh rainwater usually contains nitrogen, just a little but it may be all that a mature cactus needs. Loam based soils retain nutrients very well but not nitrogen. I know growers who provide very dilute nitrogen, but nothing else, with every watering.
--ian
ppm is parts per million, it is a measurement of the strength of the (soluble) fertiliser that is actually applied to the plants. You don't just sprinkle or pour on your 2-7-7, you dilute it first. 2-7-7 diluted 1oz/pint produces exactly the same end product as 4-14-14 diluted 1oz/quart. People very rarely know the ppm of the fertiliser they put on their plants, they rarely even think about the dilution rate, which means they are usually talking complete rubbish. Nothing better than two people arguing abour whether 7-7-7 or 20-20-20 fertiliser is better when in fact they are the same thing with different amounts of filler! BTW, there is much to be said for lower numbers if you've ever tried to measure out a tiny fraction of an ounce to make up just a pint or two of fertiliser. One slight slip and you can easily overfertilise.
To calculate your ppm, take the NPK number, divide by 100 because it is a percent, then divide by your dilution rate (eg. 1oz/gallon is a dilution of approximately 128), and multiply by 1 million. Notice that there is a different ppm for each fertiliser component. So 2-7-7 diluted at 1oz/gallon gives 2/100/128*1000000 = 156ppm of nitrogen, but 546ppm of the other two main nutrients. 546ppm is a pretty strong fertiliser, the sort of thing you might put on an F1 Petunia in full flower.
I recommend that you always calculate the ppm levels for a fertiliser before you use it, you may wish to dilute more or less than the instructions say. This also gives you the freedom to use tomato fertiliser or other off-the-shelf fertiliser. There is nothing magical about commercial cactus fertilisers except a balance that is generally low in nitrogen and, at least in the good ones, a good spread of micro-nutrients.
To calculate your ppm, take the NPK number, divide by 100 because it is a percent, then divide by your dilution rate (eg. 1oz/gallon is a dilution of approximately 128), and multiply by 1 million. Notice that there is a different ppm for each fertiliser component. So 2-7-7 diluted at 1oz/gallon gives 2/100/128*1000000 = 156ppm of nitrogen, but 546ppm of the other two main nutrients. 546ppm is a pretty strong fertiliser, the sort of thing you might put on an F1 Petunia in full flower.
I recommend that you always calculate the ppm levels for a fertiliser before you use it, you may wish to dilute more or less than the instructions say. This also gives you the freedom to use tomato fertiliser or other off-the-shelf fertiliser. There is nothing magical about commercial cactus fertilisers except a balance that is generally low in nitrogen and, at least in the good ones, a good spread of micro-nutrients.
--ian
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Devonaster
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:22 am
- Location: Ontario
Thanks for the discussion and formula - I understand a lot better now!
I'll looking into a balanced fertiliser with a good spread of micro-nutrients and your point about the lower numbers makes sense on overdosing.
One final thing if you care: If I collect rainwater or even use tap water that has been standing and make a mix of fertiliser at 50-100ppm can I store this and use it months later? or is it better to mix fresh? or maybe it doesn't really matter?
Cheers
I'll looking into a balanced fertiliser with a good spread of micro-nutrients and your point about the lower numbers makes sense on overdosing.
One final thing if you care: If I collect rainwater or even use tap water that has been standing and make a mix of fertiliser at 50-100ppm can I store this and use it months later? or is it better to mix fresh? or maybe it doesn't really matter?
Cheers
Can I get the seeds from the net?
Read your posts and was wondering if I could order/buy the seeds from the internet? and whether they can be shipped to Malaysia? I've always wanted lithops and I've never seen them on the market here 
Maybe I could try to grow them from seeds (like you).
Maybe I could try to grow them from seeds (like you).
You can order Lithops seeds from The Rowlands in England, Francois Hoes in Belgium, or Mesa Garden in the USA. All will ship anywhere in the world, Lithops are not CITES listed but you should make sure your local regulations allow the import of seed. You will have to make arrangements to pay in local currency, none of these places take credit cards.
B&T World Seeds will also mail you Lithops seeds, often seeds sourced from other suppliers like Mesa Garden, but they accept credit cards. Contact them first to check availability, they have a huge list but not everything is held in stock.
You might also wish to browse eBay, Lithops seeds are always listed in the USA and UK, payment by Paypal (credit card etc.), shipping can usually be arranged to anywhere in the world. Prices are higher than the places I listed and you won't have the same choice.
B&T World Seeds will also mail you Lithops seeds, often seeds sourced from other suppliers like Mesa Garden, but they accept credit cards. Contact them first to check availability, they have a huge list but not everything is held in stock.
You might also wish to browse eBay, Lithops seeds are always listed in the USA and UK, payment by Paypal (credit card etc.), shipping can usually be arranged to anywhere in the world. Prices are higher than the places I listed and you won't have the same choice.
--ian