Questions for mineral soil mediums

[jp29]

A word regarding my current mineral substrate mixes:

For the container grown eastern Brazilian cacti that I maintain at Bach’s Cactus Nursery here in Tucson - grown under 50% shade cloth - they are (mostly) in just washed raw pumice or decomposed granite/coarse gravel. The containers are medium to large plastic pots, staged on benches and not moved very often. They are are cultivated as described here: http://jp29.org/brculthydro.htm

For the container grown eastern Brazilian cacti that I maintain at my home - grown on my den windowsill and in transportable window boxes during winter, and under 30% shade cloth outdoors during spring and summer - they are mostly I n 80% washed raw pumice plus 20% aged and weathered pine bark fines. The containers are small (mostly 7cm and 8cm) square plastic pots and are carried and moved around frequently. They are cultivated as described here: http://jp29.org/brcultx.htm

The main reason for including the (organic) pine bark fines in the latter mix is because of the exceedingly hot days with unrelenting, ferocious, sunshine and with almost no humidity that we experience here during summer (especially June and July). We often have several successive days of temperatures in excess of 105 deg. F (40.6 C) and occasionally several successive days where the temp is in excess of 110 deg F (43 C). Our record temperature is 117 deg F (47 C). Of course, there are seldom any clouds in the sky and the sun beats down throughout the day. Keeping potted cacti hydrated during the summer here is a real challenge - I often have to water my plants maintained at Bach’s daily during the summer months. It is almost impossible to keep plants growing in small containers using a strictly mineral substrate under 30% shade cloth (which I like to do in order to insure dense, colorful spination and bountiful flowers), properly hydrated during the summer here - twice a day watering is required - too much watering for me.

[J-M]

Hello K.W.

I do not want to use 100% pumice because here during the growing season it is very humid and not so sunny ... we can say it is pretty much the opposite of what jp29 is experiencing in Tucson !

I did some test with plastic pots filled with this mix and it was drying fast enough for the conditions here. The real test will be this summer. If it is not perfect I will adjust it !

Thank you for your feedback !

[ElieEstephane]

I think some of the commercial growers are catching the mineral mix bug.
I was repotting some dutch imported cacti today and the pots were heavy. Usually some cacti have 20-30% of a black grit in the mix which is a great improvement over 100% peat. Today, the mix was 100% mineral. I'm no geologist but it looks an awful lot like the iron ore grit i use as the main constituent of my mixes. Honestly, i'm impressed.
Here's what it looks like

20180411_171458-891x891.jpg (216.17 KiB) Viewed 3562 times

[K.W.]

Good evening,

this is lava - probably from Tenerife or one of the other Canary Islands.
There are huge amounts of cacti and succulents produced.
Often these plants are planted in the lava substrate.
They are sold very much by Dutch wholesalers.
http://englisch.canary-cactus.com/about-us.html

Best wishes

K.W.

[ElieEstephane]

Thanks for the clafirication K.W.!
This is the iron ore grit i use that has the same weight, texture and color so it's easy to get confused.

20180411_204826-1280x1280.jpg (155.71 KiB) Viewed 3552 times

It's really great to hear that some producers are opting for more mineral mixes. It takes a minute to wash the roots clean.

[DaveW]

Yes some of the Dutch cactus nurseries do also have branches in the Canary's too since no doubt they have found it cheaper to produce cacti there and import to Holland rather than having to provide greenhouse space or heat greenhouses in Holland over winter for them. They do seem to grow some in the peat mix as well as some in lava though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq1dQ0Y4sEY

Ubink is one for instance:-

"Ubink’s reputation as a specialist in the national and international cactus and succulent market grew alongside the physical growth. The export and import activities increased, including importing from Tenerife on the Canary Islands which led to a partnership. Ubink currently has a production capacity of 250,000 m2 in Tenerife. The plants do not need a greenhouse to grow, which significantly decreases production costs."

Is lava what the Dutch call "Bims", since a Dutch grower recommended it to me and the only place I could find it mentioned was on the BCSS forum who said it was lava dust or grit. Perhaps one of our Dutch or Continental friends can tell me if that is correct?

Evidently we can even get lava dust in the UK as it is on EBAY. I have decided to try some, but it's not been delivered yet so I don't know if it is just dust or more granular.

https://growingorganic.com/soil-compost ... rock-dust/

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from ... t&_sacat=0

[keith]

I always wondered why they didn't do that ( Canary Islands cactus factory) in Mexico ?

[greenknight]

It resembles the iron ore because it contains iron. There's a lot of red lava rock, and some pumice is pink as well. It's not red when it's fresh, but weathering oxidizes the iron in it and turns it reddish. I live near Mt. St. Helens, which has produced every kind of lava there is during different eruption cycles - the river rock here is multicolored, white, gray, black, reddish, or (rarely) bluish or greenish.

[DaveW]

"I always wondered why they didn't do that ( Canary Islands cactus factory) in Mexico ?"

The reason Keith is it is almost impossible to get cactus plants or seed legally out of Mexico. Mexico claims the habitat country should profit from it's own plants and seed and persuaded CITES to ban all cacti or their seeds coming out of Mexico. They claimed only they should be able to propagate their plants and then sell them on the world market. Unfortunately they never did get around to doing so and would not allow more capable foreign firms to do it for them.

If they did not have the facilities themselves, a sensible way would be for them to allow a few collected plants and seed to go to foreign firms around the world on a licencing basis, say accepting a licence fee for every plant propagated and sold for say the first two years. That would certainly benifit Mexico since they don't seem to have either the expertise or inclination to propagate on the scale that say the Dutch or E. Europeans do.

Virtually all new Mexican cactus species discovered in the last decade or so, such as Gehintonia's etc now in America and the rest of the world are "technically illegal" since they originated from material smuggled out of Mexico as plants or seed. However as many are now so widespread around the world, as long as they are not actually collected plants, but second and third generation propagations or seed, they have now become acceptable even to the authorities as being too numerous to deal with.

There have even been claims in the past the rubber of your car tyres is also "technically illegal" since seeds of Rubber Seeds were taken out of Brazil using falsified documentation and propagated at Kew, then spread around the world. It seems in this world after a time what was originally "technically illegal" becomes de facto legal or history is "massaged" to make it so,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wickham_(explorer)

[jp29]

Yes some of the Dutch cactus nurseries do also have branches in the Canary's too since no doubt they have found it cheaper to produce cacti there and import to Holland rather than having to provide greenhouse space or heat greenhouses in Holland over winter for them. They do seem to grow some in the peat mix as well as some in lava though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq1dQ0Y4sEY ..........

What a great link Dave ..... thank you for posting it — and what an incredible operation Canary Cactus is !!! - I had no idea.

Many of the other YouTube links are likewise of great interest.

[keith]

If they did not have the facilities themselves, a sensible way would be for them to allow a few collected plants and seed to go to foreign firms around the world on a licensing basis, say accepting a license fee for every plant propagated and sold for say the first two years. That would certainly benefit Mexico since they don't seem to have either the expertise or inclination to propagate on the scale that say the Dutch or E. Europeans do."

Good idea.

[DaveW]

Yes when it comes to growing and selling plants JP the Dutch do not mess about, but do everything on a mecanised industrial scale:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxdGwabx4hQ

Even the Korean's and Chinese can propagate cacti by the thousands these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQKAG4bOXZY

Good job most of them are eventually killed or the world would be knee deep in cacti and the firms would go out of business! They are really the modertn day equivalent of cut flowers, often thrown away when people get tired of them or they die.

[jp29]

Yes when it comes to growing and selling plants JP the Dutch do not mess about, but do everything on a mecanised industrial scale:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxdGwabx4hQ

Even the Korean's and Chinese can propagate cacti by the thousands these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQKAG4bOXZY

Good job most of them are eventually killed or the world would be knee deep in cacti and the firms would go out of business! They are really the modertn day equivalent of cut flowers, often thrown away when people get tired of them or they die.

Again, Dave, thank you for those links - you are so good at researching important up to date information on the Internet. Actually you are an invaluable resource here, and I, for one, really appreciate your efforts.

I am absolutely “blown away” by the Dutch automated cactus and succulent growing/production operation — incredible stuff to me!

[DesertSun]

Dear OP, I was very tempted to use a solid mineral mix in some cacti, as a novice, just to check things out and get a taste of how the stuff works.
It is a pain to water, since I don't have any automatic watering system, and I think I would get quickly tired of it in the long, harsh greek summer months, which last more than the actual summer here! (we have like 6 months of summer, as opposed to other countries that have 3). So, I chose a mineral addition to an organic mix, but with rather "poor" organic soil, which is very airy and fast draining. The other part is the constant need for the addition of nutrients. So, overall I decided that it may not be the best choice for my climate and needs. But I have also added lava and marble pieces to my mix. I appreciate the members' input on their mixes so much, it's a great way of learning almost hands on, from experienced members. Thank you for sharing!

[7george]

Even pure desert cacti use some organic components in their natural soil mix. And their surviving rate is very very low. So why torture your own cacti in rocks only? To see what will happen?