200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
- bigfishtools
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- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:35 pm
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200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
Sorry my first post is sad news, but this giant will be missed.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather- ... in/1239790
https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather- ... in/1239790
Marana, Arizona
https://redwoodbowls.com
https://redwoodbowls.com
- SlowGrower
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:22 pm
- Location: Vienna, Austria
Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
At least there is another one behind it, ready to take its place as the local landmark.
Austria/Slovakia; 7b/8a. Growing cacti since 9 y/o.
Focused on slowly-growrers, especially Discocacti and Copiapoa
Focused on slowly-growrers, especially Discocacti and Copiapoa
Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
Pity. I'd cut some branches to root and to plant nearby, giving a chance to continue it's life.
Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
I suspect it is not easy to pick up any branch at all due to the weight...
Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
I sure I could ))
Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
I would very much enjoy watching you trying and verbally support you, that is for sure!
- One Windowsill
- Posts: 544
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:27 pm
- Location: Manchester
Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
It is the owls I feel sorry for.
Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
Nothing lives forever and that includes plants, though some may exceed our limited lifetime. Its really a matter if regeneration from seed still occurs, but that only has to occur once successfully in a couple of hundred years for the Saguaro population to continue.
Because man has a comparatively short lifespan we tend to write off populations as threatened or extinct whilst there is still viable seed in the ground which may germinate later. In some cactus populations there are distinct jumps in plant sizes indicating they do not regenerate much every year, only in suitable years, but in the case of Saguaro's than need only be once in a hundred years or so to maintain the population.
As suggested, unlike humans plants can be vegetatively propagated and have an unlimited life span when their original root system gives up the ghost. This however only occurs with some species in habitat rather than artificially in cultivation.
Do we even know which species may regularly disappear as actual plants in habitat to regenerate later from seed left in the ground and that is in fact the normal life cycle of that species, but a lifespan far too long for present humans to experience? We are used to this in the life span of annuals where all the living plant disappear only to many years later reappear from seed when conditions are right? However if this regeneration cycle exceeds our own lifespans we can not experience it. That is why it is not really scientific to brand any plant as "extinct" but rather "possibly or probably extinct" since our lifespans and also the botanical gardens records are far too short to be scientifically certain and botany claims to be a science.
When I was in Chile in 2015 a plant was found that had not been seen again after R.A. Philippi described it and he died in 1904, therefore described before that. Usually these records are compiled by the infrequent botanists visiting an area for a short time. The indigenous population may see the plant frequently but they do not compile botanical records. Therefore all such "scientific" plant records should be taken "with a pinch of salt" since they are only as sound as the information used in compiling them and often come down to one persons opinion.
Because man has a comparatively short lifespan we tend to write off populations as threatened or extinct whilst there is still viable seed in the ground which may germinate later. In some cactus populations there are distinct jumps in plant sizes indicating they do not regenerate much every year, only in suitable years, but in the case of Saguaro's than need only be once in a hundred years or so to maintain the population.
As suggested, unlike humans plants can be vegetatively propagated and have an unlimited life span when their original root system gives up the ghost. This however only occurs with some species in habitat rather than artificially in cultivation.
Do we even know which species may regularly disappear as actual plants in habitat to regenerate later from seed left in the ground and that is in fact the normal life cycle of that species, but a lifespan far too long for present humans to experience? We are used to this in the life span of annuals where all the living plant disappear only to many years later reappear from seed when conditions are right? However if this regeneration cycle exceeds our own lifespans we can not experience it. That is why it is not really scientific to brand any plant as "extinct" but rather "possibly or probably extinct" since our lifespans and also the botanical gardens records are far too short to be scientifically certain and botany claims to be a science.
When I was in Chile in 2015 a plant was found that had not been seen again after R.A. Philippi described it and he died in 1904, therefore described before that. Usually these records are compiled by the infrequent botanists visiting an area for a short time. The indigenous population may see the plant frequently but they do not compile botanical records. Therefore all such "scientific" plant records should be taken "with a pinch of salt" since they are only as sound as the information used in compiling them and often come down to one persons opinion.
- mikethecactusguy
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- Location: Indio Ca
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Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
If memory serves me right Saguaro's are one of the few cactus that you can not root a cutting or arm. Once they die that is it.
Mike The Cactus Guy
Enjoying the Spines
Enjoying the Spines
Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
Propagation of the Saguaro Cactus from the Arms of the Saguaro Cactusmikethecactusguy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:40 pm If memory serves me right Saguaro's are one of the few cactus that you can not root a cutting or arm. Once they die that is it.
https://www.ag.arizona.edu/OALS/urbaniz ... guaro.html
Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
The problem rooting some cacti is the cutting can stand for a year before rooting. It then depends whether they have sufficient water reserves to last until they do root. With smaller globular cacti they sometimes dry up before rooting if in a hot dry situation that dehydrates them quickly.
- mikethecactusguy
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Re: 200-year-old desert giant collapsed following seasonal rain
Hi anttisepp
I saved this from your link
"spoke with many individuals who have successfully grown saguaros from the arms and have kept them alive for up to 17 years." We know Saguaros live hundreds of years. Maybe the rooted arms never correctly root and die off with time. We know some of our plants can live for years with no roots living off themselves.
check this out
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_ ... tn8957.pdf
I saved this from your link
"spoke with many individuals who have successfully grown saguaros from the arms and have kept them alive for up to 17 years." We know Saguaros live hundreds of years. Maybe the rooted arms never correctly root and die off with time. We know some of our plants can live for years with no roots living off themselves.
check this out
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_ ... tn8957.pdf
Mike The Cactus Guy
Enjoying the Spines
Enjoying the Spines