Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

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Do you prefer the hardgrown look or not and why?

1. I prefer the hardgrown look.
10
26%
2.I prefer a bit more lush look.
6
16%
3.I prefer the hardgrown look as I think it’s more authentic looking.
7
18%
4. I prefer the hardgrown look as I think its better/ healthier for the species I grow.
10
26%
5. I prefer a lusher look, don’t like my plants to look as if they are clinging to life.
3
8%
6. I sell/ produce plants / seed on a bigger scale than the ‘average’ grower and want the plants to be ready as soon as possible.
2
5%
 
Total votes: 38
Mrs.Green
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Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by Mrs.Green »

Looking at different blogs both here and other places, it’s interesting to see the difference in preferred growing methods/ looks . Some state that they prefer their plants hardgrown others don’t mentions growing methods but the pics give you an idea.

If you prefer your plants hardgrown, is it because you think thats more authentic looking or are there other reasons? Don’t know what the opposit term would be? Softgrown perhaps? :D

So , what is your preferred growing method/ wanted look and why?
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BryanT
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by BryanT »

Mrs.Green wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 5:36 pm Looking at different blogs both here and other places, it’s interesting to see the difference in preferred growing methods/ looks . Some state that they prefer their plants hardgrown others don’t mentions growing methods but the pics give you an idea.

If you prefer your plants hardgrown, is it because you think thats more authentic looking or are there other reasons? Don’t know what the opposit term would be? Softgrown perhaps? :D

So , what is your preferred growing method/ wanted look and why?
Hi Mrs. Green,
Personally, my plants wasn't hard-grown or "pampered", I just do something when I feel like it or whenever I have time.
As long as the plants survive, some damages here and there doesn't bother me.
There are also people grow plants for shows, so they will spent lot of time to make sure it is in perfect condition.
Bryan
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greenknight
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by greenknight »

I prefer hard grown to rotten, lush can quickly turn to rotten.
Spence :mrgreen:
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BryanT
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by BryanT »

greenknight wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:12 pm I prefer hard grown to rotten, lush can quickly turn to rotten.

Agreed with you with that one, Spence. :D :D :D
And the bugs love lush plants. 🐛🐛🐌🐌🕷🕷🤣🤣
Bryan
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by Steve Johnson »

Very interesting subject, and from what I've seen over the years, growers apparently believe that there are only 2 growing styles -- hard-grown (mimicking what cacti look like in the wild), and lush (beautiful show specimens that look nothing like their wild counterparts). We do, however have a 3rd choice...

Endless amounts of credit go to MikeInOz -- professional horticulturalist with a deep knowledge of cacti and succulents, and the best explainer of fertilizers I've ever seen. Thanks to what I learned from him, here's a "Cliff Notes" version of what I've been doing fert-wise:

https://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47212

The key is to give our cacti a full spectrum of nutrients major, minor, and micro, all in good balance, but in small amounts. The result -- they'll be able to reach the genetic growth potential that would be impossible for the same species growing in the wild. I'll contrast this with lush over-fertilized cacti that are pushed beyond their natural limits under cultivation. The end result there -- shortened lifespan, increased vulnerability to pests, and (as Spence said) increased risk of losing the plants to rot. While there is something to be said for growing cacti "hard", there's something to be said for the 3rd choice too. Since I'm letting y'all know about it, some of you may want to investigate this further.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
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MrXeric
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by MrXeric »

I prefer plants that look closer to what they look like in habitat, so I try to water and feed accordingly: sparingly and irregularly. I do realize that short of growing my plants in actual habitat conditions, I won't be achieving the look 100%, but close is close enough. :lol: I do like the cultivated look on many plants though, such as Ariocarpus and Astrophytum, and I plan to grow some of these "lush" along side the "harder" grown plants.
DaveW
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by DaveW »

Something in between hard grown and over bloated show specimens. Reasonably hard grown but to look as though they are actually growing.
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7george
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by 7george »

Generally --> "hard grown" but there are some variations about this. Like seedlings I grow live mostly in mild conditions, been pampered during their first years, otherwise it would take forever to bring them to adult stage. Also for some category of already big-sized plants keeping them hard-grown is the only way to have them because if these reach larger size pots and plants would not fit my growing environment (windowsills, rooms or moving outdoors for the summer) and I'll have to lose them. Other plants are grown in conditions I have and preferred look not always is achievable.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
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anttisepp
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by anttisepp »

I prefer healthier look. It means absence of pests, giving maximum sun light (in my latitude), physiologically enough amount of water and wisely used fertilizers.
Though habitat plants are often scorched, biten by rodents and insects, have different injuries due to their existence on the edge.
Mrs.Green
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by Mrs.Green »

Thank you all for contributing 🙂 I have been thinking a lot of this subject since I wrote the post and I begin to wonder if I have misinterpreted the term ‘hard grown’? When I envision ‘hard grown’ cacti I think of plants that look like they are in survival mode ( thirsty , wrinkly, deflated, slightly sunburned in some cases and slow growing ) more or less all the time.

I have never seen a cactus in habitat, so I have to rely on what I have seen in articles and videos and of course , what I have seen so far is only a fraction of whats available.

What I am thinking ( and I may be way off on this) ; I guess in most habitats ( were cacti are growing) there must be more or less changes in the weather/ water ‘supply’ throughout the year? For instance ; a plant that looks like a deflated ball some months in the year, can change it’s appereance quite dramatically when water is present. So which of this is the more ‘authentic’ looks? It’s the same plant and in habitat.
If the weather for some reason should change in this hypotetical plants /species habitat and it would have had access to more water , would it have died out from more water alone? ( I am now excluding factors like different types of various predators and competition from other plants who would also have gained from more water) This example is of course very simplistic as more water in this specific habitat could lead to a chainreaction of events that would eradict or greatly reduce the population of this hypotetic species.

But plants of this species grown in pots would probably don’t face the consequenses of more water as for instance new predators or competition from other plants. So would for instance more water alone, have a bad influence of the plants viability?

As Steve Johnson mentions, there is of course not only two options; hard grown or ‘soft grown’ ( again; what is the term for the opposit of hard grown?) there is a middle ground. What I think of as the middle; is a plant that is activily growing without it seemingly or actually bursting ‘at it seams’ in the growing season and with a resting period with no or less water/ added nutrients . ( in my climate anyway). Have I understood this right?

A ‘soft grown/lush grown plant is a plant that is watered/ fertilezed to the point of maximum of what it tolerates?

Then we are back the definition of ‘hard grown’.. I would love to add pics here of what I belive to be hard versus soft grown but I am reluctant to use / link to other peoples plants, they may not like it.. If anyone have pics of plants that they think of as hard/ soft grown, it would be great to see. So would also further explanations on these terms be very welcome 🙂
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mmcavall
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by mmcavall »

Hi Mr. Green,
I prefer hard grown plants and I try to hard grow my plants. But this doesnt mean that they will be in the "survive mode" all year round. In the growing season I give them lots of water and nutrients. In the "winter" (not really cold here) I let them mostly dry and , as they are in a more mineral mix, they end up more spined and compact. So thats my conception of hard grown... cacti receive what they need to grow, but not excedents to become bloated and bright green and pests prone.
I am always re-thinking it. At this very moment I'm re-thinking my pure mineral mix because I'm observing that some plants are lacking nitrogen (they are yellow at the base). So I'm not totaly confident of my growing method. The only thing I know for sure is that I dont like globular Mammillarias to grow as if they were columnars...I see lots of plants over fertilized, over watered and over shaded and I think they look very ugly. Recently I saw a video of a collection of Arios and Astros and they are really big and green...really an amazing collection...but, for me, they all look artificial...I would'nt grow my Arios (if I had them) like that.
Mrs.Green
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by Mrs.Green »

Thank you Mmcavall 🙂 Your explanation again makes me think that I have misunderstood the term ‘hard grown’ As already said, I belived hard grown to be more ‘ little growth, survival mode all year round’ or not quite that extreme but along those lines.

The way you describe it gets me thinking of the middle way or should one dare say more natural way? I have far to little knowledge and experience yet to conclude on anything but from the pics and videos I have seen so far from habitats, a lot of the plants do not look like dried up raisins, all year round. Quite a few looks healthy ( as in green and not wrinkly/deflated). I am not trying to tell anyone ‘listen, you are doing things wrong’, not at all , I just think its an interesting topic to discuss 🙂

I do understands what you mean by ‘arteficial look’ though. I have to say I am torn here.. and for me it depends a bit on what species we are talking about.

I have for instance never seen an Ariocarpus or a Lophophora IRL but I have seen quite a few pics. I have to admit that the deflated, ‘colourless’ buried in the soil specimens ( habitat pics) I don’t find very appealing. If I had those species in my possesion, I would have preferred a more ‘alive and growing’ look, at least for parts of the year. On the other hand, someone posted a pic of a Leuchtenbergia principis here on the forum, which I instantly felt was wrong ( very high and it looked like that all the tubercles was of the same length and stacked on top of each other) even though I have never seen this species IRL either. So..I am not very consistent evidently.
LateBloomer
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by LateBloomer »

Hardgrown to me are plants that can handle full sun, no water for months, and very little nutrients added since most can get it from air or rocks/soil.

I consider my cacti hardgrown even though I water then every week. They are in 80-100% mineral mix and very little to no additional fertilizer. I don’t have bloating nor splitting since there are very little nutrients and in full sun. I can not water for months and my cacti won’t have issues with that.

Green house cacti grow in optimal conditions with maximum nutrients water and optimal light usually shade. They tend to be very bloated light shades of green and “weak” against pest damages. Hard grown cacti seem to grow slower but are compact and will resist pest damage like mites.

I perfer hard grown over greenhouse since hardgrown are much more resistant to issues but there is no right or wrong really… if you enjoy your cacti appearance grow them as you favor.
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mmcavall
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by mmcavall »

LateBloomer wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:54 pm Hardgrown to me are plants that can handle full sun, no water for months, and very little nutrients added since most can get it from air or rocks/soil.

I consider my cacti hardgrown even though I water then every week. They are in 80-100% mineral mix and very little to no additional fertilizer. I don’t have bloating nor splitting since there are very little nutrients and in full sun. I can not water for months and my cacti won’t have issues with that.

Green house cacti grow in optimal conditions with maximum nutrients water and optimal light usually shade. They tend to be very bloated light shades of green and “weak” against pest damages. Hard grown cacti seem to grow slower but are compact and will resist pest damage like mites.

I perfer hard grown over greenhouse since hardgrown are much more resistant to issues but there is no right or wrong really… if you enjoy your cacti appearance grow them as you favor.
Totally agree.
And I dont think there is a single well defined of what is "hard grown". But is something like Latebloomer described in my opinion.
LateBloomer
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Re: Hardgrown or not- how do you prefer your cacti/succulents?

Post by LateBloomer »

Mrs.Green wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:39 pm erstands what you mean by ‘arteficial look’ though. I have to say I am torn here.. and for me it depends a bit on what species we are talking about.

I have for instance never seen an Ariocarpus or a Lophophora IRL but I have seen quite a few pics. I have to admit that the deflated, ‘colourless’ buried in the soil specimens ( habitat pics) I don’t find very appealing. If I had those species in my possesion, I would have preferred a more ‘alive and growing’ look, at least for parts of the year. On the other hand, someone posted a pic of a Leuchtenbergia principis here on the forum, which I instantly felt was wrong ( very high and it looked like that all the tubercles was of the same length and stacked on top of each other) even though I have never seen this species IRL either. So..I am not very consistent evidently.
The best way to explain would be a own root vs grafted cactus... hardgrown is closer to own root then grafted since it has more compact growth. Some grafts look pretty natural with age but early on they are very bloated. Another good example to understand the 'artifical look' is googling mammillaria theresae graft. A 'hard grown' mammillaria theresae shows very little to no body/flesh but most grafts you can lots of the green/red/purple flesh and there is lots of space in between the spines.

Again its mostly a personal preference... like with globular cacti I like them to be very low to the ground and not 'tall' but I don't go to the extreme of growing so hard they they only get watered 4 times a year in full sun.
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