Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

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DaveW
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Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by DaveW »

I was puzzled when I saw this table of countries in which Lophophora's were banned that seemed to indicate by the green block under cultivation it was legal in the USA for non commercial or non consumption purposes, though possession except for religious use (meaning consumption) was seemingly illegal, something which seems a contradiction? Surely this not correct? If not the Wikipedia article needs amending since it could mislead people as to its legality and get them into trouble?

As you can see we can grow what we like in the UK since misuse of our plants has never really been a problem here. Far too expensive to consume anyway as the "Crack Heads" have cheaper sources of high's!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_sta ... by_country
Mrs.Green
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by Mrs.Green »

Thank you DaveW :) I wondered if growing ( not consuming..) Lophophora was still illegal in Norway, now I know. Interestingly, in our neighbour country Sweden, it’s legal.

I was a bit surprised looking at the list over ‘bad’ cacti, even Astrophytums and several other species I have never thought of as psychoactive species. With the cactiprices in Norway, you would have to be really desperate or rich, to start consuming cacti though.
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One Windowsill
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by One Windowsill »

Mrs.Green wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:00 pm I was a bit surprised looking at the list over ‘bad’ cacti, even Astrophytums and several other species I have never thought of as psychoactive species. With the cactiprices in Norway, you would have to be really desperate or rich, to start consuming cacti though.
The term "peyote" has been used for many small medicinal cacti in parts of Mexico and the border states of the USA. The ones that aren't Lophophora have no hallucinogenic effect. Depending on the classifications used, most Lophophora species except for Lophophora williamsii have insufficient mescaline to have any effect on humans. Others species of Lophophora do have other alkaloids that can be cardiotoxic, so best to be very cautious over identification. Several of the other genera on that list were valued by the Tarahumara because they said the cacti helped with long-distance running.
Mrs.Green
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by Mrs.Green »

One Windowsill wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:34 pm
The term "peyote" has been used for many small medicinal cacti in parts of Mexico and the border states of the USA. The ones that aren't Lophophora have no hallucinogenic effect. Depending on the classifications used, most Lophophora species except for Lophophora williamsii have insufficient mescaline to have any effect on humans. Others species of Lophophora do have other alkaloids that can be cardiotoxic, so best to be very cautious over identification. Several of the other genera on that list were valued by the Tarahumara because they said the cacti helped with long-distance running.
[/quote]

Thank you One Windowsill :) This is the list I am referring to; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_cactus

I really goy curious now, which cacti are in fact illegal in Norway?
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One Windowsill
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by One Windowsill »

Mrs.Green wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:59 pm I really goy curious now, which cacti are in fact illegal in Norway?
I can't see any genera mentioned in the list that Wikipedia gave as a reference. Several other plants and fungi are specifically mentioned, such as Catha edulis. Growing plants in order to produce illegal drugs is illegal, according to one part. Mescalinum is given as an illegal drug. I don't see anything else in the automatically translated version that mentions cacti.

https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/2013-02-14-199

Which is odd. Wasn't a Norwegian comic once arrested for smiling on the street, causing police to assume he was on drugs?
DaveW
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by DaveW »

These substances of course are usually produced as a natural insecticide or deterrent to stop the plants being eaten. I suppose Lophophora is banned because it produces the strongest alkaloid combinations, but many Cerei we use as grafting stocks also do to a lesser extent, but are still legal to grow.

https://pevgrow.com/blog/en/peyote-san- ... ne-cactus/

Maybe Lophophora was really banned to stop it being harvested by too many in habitat, therefore depleting the population? However was its consumption really a problem in many other countries? I always find it curious that a law that relates to the general population in many countries can be set aside for certain religions, which is itself a form of discrimination against the majority?

Probably plants as a source of "Highs" may have been a problem in the past, but these days of synthetics in tablet form, apart from use by that religious cult, would the misuse of Peyote by the general population really be a problem?

I believe it was tried as a treatment for mental disorders in the UK long ago. However it was stopped because the patients kept getting reoccurring hallucinations, even after stopping taking it.

From the Web:-

"One of the most frightening dangers of using peyote is the possibility of developing HPPD, or hallucinogen persisting perception disorder. Although sometimes referred to as “flashbacks,” this experience isn’t limited to isolated episodes, but can be a continual, debilitating experience of hallucinogenic effects in a trip that never ends."
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Steve-0
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by Steve-0 »

Here's a chart for the legal status of psychoactive cactus by country:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_sta ... by_country
keith
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by keith »

Maybe Lophophora was really banned to stop it being harvested by too many in habitat, therefore depleting the population? However was its consumption really a problem in many other countries? I always find it curious that a law that relates to the general population in many countries can be set aside for certain religions, which is itself a form of discrimination against the majority?"

Goofy that growing this plant is against the law.
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eulaspiegel
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by eulaspiegel »

A shot in the dark, maybe the situation in the US is similarly convoluted as the drug laws in Germany? I remember in Germany there is the absurd situation that it is technically legal to consume any drug, but everything else (possession, trade, etc.) is strictly illegal. So basically consumption is kind of banned "indirectly".
To get to the point, maybe in the US cultivation itself is not explicitly illegal, but since cultivation and possession would be impossible to distinguish (as soon as you grow a L. williamsii, you are in possession of mescaline, whether you want it or not), so maybe that is why it is said to be illegal to be cultivated as well? Or to rephrase that, maybe there can be no cultivation without possession in terms of the US laws? I am just guessing though, maybe someone else has greater insight into US legislation than I do...
But I agree that the wikipedia article is misleading, there should at least be some sort of footnote to explain things properly.
Growing mostly under LED lights, in northern latitudes. Especially interested in stem succulents and caudiciforms. Dreaming of my first greenhouse.
Mrs.Green
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by Mrs.Green »

One Windowsill wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:55 pm
Mrs.Green wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:59 pm I really goy curious now, which cacti are in fact illegal in Norway?
I can't see any genera mentioned in the list that Wikipedia gave as a reference. Several other plants and fungi are specifically mentioned, such as Catha edulis. Growing plants in order to produce illegal drugs is illegal, according to one part. Mescalinum is given as an illegal drug. I don't see anything else in the automatically translated version that mentions cacti.

https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/2013-02-14-199

Which is odd. Wasn't a Norwegian comic once arrested for smiling on the street, causing police to assume he was on drugs?
Thank youOne Windowsill :) I am referring to the what’s on this list are called ‘other ‘peyotes’. It’s a bit unclear to me if these to are seen as illegal? If so, selling f.ex. Asterias is illegal..

Can’t remember the episode you are referring to but I don’t doubt it has happened.. :D
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One Windowsill
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by One Windowsill »

Mrs.Green wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:00 pm Thank youOne Windowsill :) I am referring to the what’s on this list are called ‘other ‘peyotes’. It’s a bit unclear to me if these to are seen as illegal? If so, selling f.ex. Asterias is illegal..
The other peyotes are not illegal to grow, they contain no mescaline or other controlled drugs.

If you purified some of the alkaloids from them, the extract could be illegal under the analogue laws of some countries. Despite the fact that they would be useless or horrible. Some analogue laws are very broad and vague.
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Steve-0
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

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MrXeric
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by MrXeric »

I believe only L. williamsii (Lemaire) is illegal to cultivate? It may vary by state.

Either way, it's a silly law that classifies this plant together with other drugs such as LSD and heroin (Schedule I). Refined mescaline makes sense, but the plant itself? Silly. Even sillier that other mescaline producing plants are perfectly legal to cultivate for ornamental purposes. There may be hope to decriminalize this plant in the future if we can decriminalize Cannabis federally...

As for why was it banned in the first place? I believe it's largely a result of American prohibitionist attitudes and misplaced religious zeal that ultimately made Lophophora a target for our "War on Drugs".
LateBloomer
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by LateBloomer »

https://erowid.org/plants/peyote/peyote_law.shtml

Has links to sources… in many countries like Brazil even if a plant isn’t directly stated ANY plant containing psychoactive compounds is considered illegal even coffee which is absurd. However when only grown for ornamental value and not being processed some countries make exceptions. You would need to read the law since even seeds are illegal some places. There are also religious exceptions and such but I’d say harder to prove if you are not a native or of a country where use is cultural/religious

From what I remember most all plants that natives used around the world were banned when colonialists were bring religious saying that it was devil worshipping or even just to make it harder on natives… like let’s make it illegal to use x only natives use x so we can arrest them take land blah blah
keith
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Re: Is Lophophora cultivation legal in USA?

Post by keith »

In CA the law cant or wont go after thieves who bust your car window or steal less than 950 dollars but will arrest someone who has a Lophophora plant ? Maybe ? IDK anything's possible .
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