Re: CactiGuide.com Big Picture Project
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:46 pm
The problem with all languages, at least in the spoken form, is they change with time. There may be genuine experts on written Latin, but as we have no audio recordings as to how the Romans spoke Latin even Professors of Latin can now only guess based on how they were taught. Also as it has passed down by mouth to mouth for centauries, as with all spoken languages, how it is spoken it alters with time, rather like the game "Chinese Whispers". Also the Roman Empire was spread around the world, so just like English with its received pronunciation for the minority British aristocracy which few others Brits speak, the majority are using their countless local dialects, therefore it is extremely unlikely all in the Roman Empire pronounced Latin the same.
For instance in comparatively modern times, even since the first audio recordings were made, the present generations often do not pronounce both British or American English as out forefathers did. Not only living languages change their pronunciation with time but so do dead languages. Only the written form tends to be relatively stable. Though seemingly "text speak" may even change the written form of English eventually "U No"
W.T. Stearn in his "Botanical Latin" that Daiv mentions gives three different forms of Latin pronunciation for we Brits, "Traditional English", "Reformed Academic" and also says "Church Latin is based on modern Italian pronunciation". He also says "Botanical Latin is a written language never intended to be spoken, but we have to try in order to verbally communicate!". He also makes the point that as long as others understand you it really does not matter how you say it because it will vary around the world as to how other nations pronounce their words. He says that Botanical and Medical Latin have now diverged to become virtual languages of their own, therefore never get a classical Latin scholar to write a botanical species diagnosis since the botanists will never understand it!
As Daiv says, the best way is to pronounce the plant name as it is constructed = albispina = albi = white + spina = spines. However I have also known a botanist who claimed that when it becomes a plant name it therefore becomes a new entity, therefore does not matter how it is constructed regarding pronunciation. He pronounced a plant called Islaya maritima, meaning beside the sea, "mar-it-i-ma, where I would pronounce it mar-ee -tie-ma as the word maritime. meaning by the sea, is pronounced in English.
As it is, if you belong to a cactus club you eventually develop "group speak" just as with local dialects where most of the members pronounce plant names similarly. However go to another country and it often becomes a different language, even though still based on Latin originally. Anyway beginners should not get too hung up on how they say the names as long as they are understood and a common pronunciation develops between you and your fellow enthusiasts eventually.
The main advantage of Latin plant names is they are international and only relate to a particular genus and species, unlike popular or local names that may only apply to your country or even region. For instance around the world "bluebell" can apply to more than one species or genus. "English Bluebell = Hyacinthoides non-scripta, "Scottish Bluebell = Campanula rotundifolia, Spanish Bluebell = Hyacinthoides hispanica, Virginia Bluebells = Mertensia virginica. You therefore may know what you mean by "Bluebell" but unless you give the international Latin name the rest of the world will not.
For instance in comparatively modern times, even since the first audio recordings were made, the present generations often do not pronounce both British or American English as out forefathers did. Not only living languages change their pronunciation with time but so do dead languages. Only the written form tends to be relatively stable. Though seemingly "text speak" may even change the written form of English eventually "U No"
W.T. Stearn in his "Botanical Latin" that Daiv mentions gives three different forms of Latin pronunciation for we Brits, "Traditional English", "Reformed Academic" and also says "Church Latin is based on modern Italian pronunciation". He also says "Botanical Latin is a written language never intended to be spoken, but we have to try in order to verbally communicate!". He also makes the point that as long as others understand you it really does not matter how you say it because it will vary around the world as to how other nations pronounce their words. He says that Botanical and Medical Latin have now diverged to become virtual languages of their own, therefore never get a classical Latin scholar to write a botanical species diagnosis since the botanists will never understand it!
As Daiv says, the best way is to pronounce the plant name as it is constructed = albispina = albi = white + spina = spines. However I have also known a botanist who claimed that when it becomes a plant name it therefore becomes a new entity, therefore does not matter how it is constructed regarding pronunciation. He pronounced a plant called Islaya maritima, meaning beside the sea, "mar-it-i-ma, where I would pronounce it mar-ee -tie-ma as the word maritime. meaning by the sea, is pronounced in English.
As it is, if you belong to a cactus club you eventually develop "group speak" just as with local dialects where most of the members pronounce plant names similarly. However go to another country and it often becomes a different language, even though still based on Latin originally. Anyway beginners should not get too hung up on how they say the names as long as they are understood and a common pronunciation develops between you and your fellow enthusiasts eventually.
The main advantage of Latin plant names is they are international and only relate to a particular genus and species, unlike popular or local names that may only apply to your country or even region. For instance around the world "bluebell" can apply to more than one species or genus. "English Bluebell = Hyacinthoides non-scripta, "Scottish Bluebell = Campanula rotundifolia, Spanish Bluebell = Hyacinthoides hispanica, Virginia Bluebells = Mertensia virginica. You therefore may know what you mean by "Bluebell" but unless you give the international Latin name the rest of the world will not.