About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

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Aiko
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Aiko »

I have just put up four rules for identification requests (ID) for both the cacti and succulents section. See https://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewto ... =3&t=45443.

Of course these are open to debate and I am very sure not everyone will be satisfied with these rules. But for now I would like to see if these can help to keep everyone a bit happier from now on.
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mmcavall
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by mmcavall »

Very good! Basic, simple, easy to follow rules. No one can feel injured by this. Let's see what happens next.
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teo
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by teo »

Rule 3 : I miss the equivalent of the Like-button(s) in FB where you can show your response/gratitude without writing an actual reply (that doesn't add more info to the thread).
esp_imaging
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by esp_imaging »

I'd like to complain about the lastest moderated posts last night (8th Nov) asking for succulent id!
I think the moderation was too heavy handed, and to be blunt, rude. I'd hope we try to be friendly and helpful here.
A new poster has asked for 2 ids, 1 per thread. They correctly assessed that 1 was a sedum. Without listing potentially hundreds of sedums which they thought it wasn't, what more do you want from a new, inexperienced poster, possibly a total beginner? It's not as though they were massively abusing the system. As it is, their post was shut down within 30 minutes without anyone responding. This seems hostile and pointless.
I now feel I have to write a post here to complain, and site mail the respondent directly with my views about id.

From experience, it's VERY HARD figuring out id's if you don't know where to start. It's particularly hard if you don't know the genus, or if the genus is huge and diverse and your plants isn't one of the most common types (Sedum, Euphorbia and Mammillaria spring to mind). We should give new posters a lot more benefit of the doubt for their first posts. Encourage them and ask them to read posting rules for sure, but don't just shut down their posts as their initial, unwelcoming welcome to the site.
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anttisepp
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by anttisepp »

I was ready to help with ID but posting was blocked. Hope they'll come again.
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Aiko
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Aiko »

That was my first act since the rules came in place, and a right one. To me this was a clear example of abusing (yes, I call it that) the identification system and why the rules where set up in the first place. If I don't act on a post like that (or in this case a bunch of posts), there is no use for moderating at all.

Tell me, what do you expect from a moderator, especially with the initiation of this thread in mind?
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by esp_imaging »

Aiko wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:26 pmTo me this was a clear example of abusing (yes, I call it that) the identification system and why the rules where set up in the first place.
I can’t see how the rules were broken Aiko, let alone abused.
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samhain
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by samhain »

Here’s a crazy idea. Merge the threads and leave them open. Locking threads contributes nothing to the forum, great work.
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Jangaudi
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Jangaudi »

I'm a little afraid that the advantages of moderating the ID requests is outweighed by the negative impact it will have. I don't think we will see this poster again. Is it and remains perfectly human to post on a forum for the first time with a certain urge, and skipping the research on what is allowed and what not, we all do it, it's just like the "read and agreed" pages (usually 16 pages of legal jargon) or the more recent "agree to all" (cookies ! :D) We all grow a habbit of finding the shortest way to what we want / need, because the long road is terribly clogged up, and not many of us can actually handle it. That said, I think moderation would be more in perspective if new users who consistently keep posting only ID requests, get a friendly note about it and only perhaps later get posts blocked, instead of blocking their first (and therefor last) post.
I'm 99 % sure that poster failed to read the forum rules when posting a first post, and I'm 99% sure I didn't read the forum rules before I posted the first time. Though after a while you get the hang of it, and so will they.
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Aiko
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Aiko »

I take one firm act as a moderator doing exactly what I am supposed to do knowing why the rules were set up (hence this thread and some others!), and immediately I get a complaint. Well, that is nice.

If anyone is eager to take on this role, please let me know and I will ask Daiv to change the moderator rights! I would be happy to let someone else be a moderator. The role is to keep this to keep this forum interesting ALSO for the long time posters that are up here that don't want to see half of the messages being about identification requests. Please keep that in mind. I really do not want to read all those identification requests and checking out the history of the poster to see if I need to act. That is what I intended to avoid at the first place, reading all those requests. I'd rather select the few threads with a title that might interest me, click on 'mark all new posts as read' and move on. Now I have to do this annoying job and I get smacked on the head for it.

Really, anyone want to take it over from me?
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hiawog
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by hiawog »

I'm pretty new here but I can't help but chime in with a few thoughts. I hope they are constructive and helpful.

1. THANK YOU, Aiko, for moderating the subforum. It's a difficult and undervalued task. I really appreciate it.

2. I first joined this community because I needed help with an ID, but I've since grown to truly value the insight and contributions of so many people here. Seriously, thank y'all. We shouldn't forget that the ID subforum is one of the most common entry paths for new members who do end up trying to give back.

3. The large number of requests from newer members IS draining on the community, and I'm glad there are rules in place. I'm worried about the tension though. I actually avoid making requests, even for some cool things I think might possibly be hybrids, because I haven't been able to contribute much yet.

4. Moderators are human beings. Human beings make mistakes, and that's totally okay. That's why it's fair for people to share constructive/respectful feedback.

Personally, it does seem like it would be nice if we gave these posters a chance to somehow correct their mistakes (maybe adding a guess as per rule 1?) before locking the thread. Aiko, is there a realistic way to do something like that? Or is it just an extra step and too much work? I really have no idea. Is there some other middle path we might be able to take?

5. In the interest of kindness and beauty, look at the ' ferocactus! My pic but not my plant.
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Aiko
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by Aiko »

hiawog wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:03 pm Personally, it does seem like it would be nice if we gave these posters a chance to somehow correct their mistakes (maybe adding a guess as per rule 1?) before locking the thread.
The chance basically is just posting a new thread and then stick to the rules next time. It is not like a person is banned.

I gave insight in what was wrong and then leave it there to be picked up again in another try. The text is still there as the thread was only locked and not deleted, so no need retyping it all. If someone has to redo creating a thread, than that might show they really care to know the answer for the question of asking about the name of a plant, but then all within the rules of course. That is a plus.

Just leaving it like it was and merely warning gives me more work as I need to look up their history to see if a friendly warning has been issued before. Or to keep track if a warning has been picked up after a certain time. That is becoming an administrative chore.

Since the rules are in place, I do have noticed most new threads do follow the rules very well.
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hiawog
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by hiawog »

Aiko wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:16 pm The chance basically is just posting a new thread and then stick to the rules next time. It is not like a person is banned.

I gave insight in what was wrong and then leave it there to be picked up again in another try. The text is still there as the thread was only locked and not deleted, so no need retyping it all. If someone has to redo creating a thread, than that might show they really care to know the answer for the question of asking about the name of a plant, but then all within the rules of course. That is a plus.

Just leaving it like it was and merely warning gives me more work as I need to look up their history to see if a friendly warning has been issued before. Or to keep track if a warning has been picked up after a certain time. That is becoming an administrative chore.

Since the rules are in place, I do have noticed most new threads do follow the rules very well.
Thanks for your reply, Aiko. That makes sense about posting a new thread, and I'm very glad to hear the rules have helped a lot.

Maybe it would be possible to have a simple friendly boilerplate blurb that makes clear that people are welcome to repost if they follow the rules? It might also help to clarify rule 3 with a clear "waiting period" before starting multiple threads? Just an idea...wouldn't want you to have to track that or anything.

Again, thank you for all the time you put into this place. I learn a lot here.
nona
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by nona »

It was a friendlier place before the rules were set in place. That there are ID requests is not the problem. If answering ID requests stops being fun and becomes a chore, then perhaps it's time to consider taking a break. In a forum as popular and friendly as CactiGuide has been, there will always be someone happy to step in.
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anttisepp
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Re: About the requests for ID, again. We need to consider moderating

Post by anttisepp »

Agreed with nona. Good will and friendship have to rule here. IMHO.
It's not obligatory to wear a heavy Crown of Power in this modest "flower-lover" forum.
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