Degrafting

All about grafting. How-to information, progress reports, show of your results.
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Edwindwianto
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Edwindwianto »

Hanazono wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:10 am Cutting back the stock by a knife to the target length, 20 mm
Image
What do you mean by that?
Do you mean that you re-root that 20mm pereskiopsis?

If that was the case, that would not be a "true" rerooting, since it is not the geohintonia which is re-rooted
Hanazono wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:10 am The union of one of them were broken off during this job and it was moved to a normal degrafting.
what do you mean?
Do you mean that you try to re-root that geohintonia without it's stock (as oppose to above question)?

How does they do?
Are they re-rooted successfully?

I read that geohintonia is hard (if not jmpossible) to re-root
Hanazono wrote: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:10 am Set on wet potting-mix immediately for the rooting
Image
What has become of them?
Update please...thanks
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Hanazono
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Edwin,
If that was the case, that would not be a "true" rerooting, since it is not the geohintonia which is re-rooted
The method with a short stock is not new. It was used commomly as called "Daituki Oroshi" for more than 50 years.
Setting depends upon the type of stocks.
Since Pereskiopsis is a non-parmanent stock and I set to meet for non-parmanent stock.

The roots are developed from the short stock initially and so it is "not true rooting" at that stage but the rooting process is not completed yet.
Since Pereskiopsis is a non-parmanent stock, stock will be weak and die eventually in the soil.
When the stock becomes weak, roots of the scion will start to develop and switched over when the stock died.
It takes several years from the setting to rooting of scion in case of Pereskiopsis stock.
A permeable material is used for top dressing in pot for the rooting of the scion.

A short Hylocereus vascular bundle is possible to use as same way.
Do you mean that you try to re-root that geohintonia without it's stock (as oppose to above question)?
Yes I did a normal degrafting for one scion.
The scion has been rooted.
I read that Geohintonia is hard (if not jmpossible) to re-root
I do not know who said " the rooting of Geohintonia is hard."
He may not experience the rooting by himself.
The rooting of Geohintonia is very easy. I have never failed the rooting of Geohintonia.
The rooting of Aztekium is hard but Geohintonia is not.
I read that geohintonia is hard (if not jmpossible) to re-root
Please have a look the attached updated photo taken in this morning.
One of them is own-rooted.

Frank
https://cactiguide.com/forum/download/f ... w&id=73533
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Rooted Geohintonia
Rooted Geohintonia
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Edwindwianto
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Edwindwianto »

Hanazono wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:02 pm The method with a short stock is not new. It was used commomly as called "Daituki Oroshi" for more than 50 years.
Good evening Frank
Thanks for the info...
Hanazono wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:02 pm Setting depends upon the type of stocks.
Since Pereskiopsis is a non-parmanent stock and I set to meet for non-parmanent stock.
what does it mean?
Hanazono wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:02 pm Since Pereskiopsis is a non-parmanent stock, stock will be weak and die eventually in the soil.
Do you mean, you bury thar 20mm stock completely in the substrate?
Hanazono wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:02 pm When the stock becomes weak, roots of the scion will start to develop and switched over when the stock died.
The rot of the stock will not spread to the scion?
Hanazono wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:02 pm It takes several years from the setting to rooting of scion in case of Pereskiopsis stock.
A permeable material is used for top dressing in pot for the rooting of the scion.
A short Hylocereus vascular bundle is possible to use as same way.
How many years, from your exp?
Hanazono wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:02 pm I do not know who said " the rooting of Geohintonia is hard."
He may not experience the rooting by himself.
The rooting of Geohintonia is very easy. I have never failed the rooting of Geohintonia.
The rooting of Aztekium is hard but Geohintonia is not.
Ah...i was wrong...sorry
It was the A. hintonii in this post that i was talking about (not G. mexicana)
I had asked the seller, how to root that hintonii...she said, it is impossible
All the cacti in the upper row seem to be etiolated?

I recon these mexicanas are the same plants as above?...
You said they are 9yo...does it mean that they need 9y as scions to reach that size?

BTW Frank, thanks a million for all your replies
It's been enjoyable to read them all
🙏🙏🙏
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Hanazono
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Edwin,
what does it mean?
Non-parmanent stocks will be weak and die in soil.
The scion needs to develop roots at that time.
The bottom of scion has to contact rooting medium to root and so I use the rooting medium as top dressing in pot.

In case of parmanent stocks, stocks will not die years and turned to woody structure.
You can not expect any roots from the scion and so you do not need rooting medium as top dressing.
Do you mean, you bury thar 20mm stock completely in the substrate?
Yes I do. The stock is in the substrate completely and the bottom of scion has to contact rooting medium.
The rot of the stock will not spread to the scion?
Stocks in substrate will not rot. They will be weak and dried.
How many years, from your exp?
Pereskiopsis: 5 years
Hylocereus vascula bundle: 2 years
All the cacti in the upper row seem to be etiolated?
They are not etiolated.
I recon these mexicanas are the same plants as above?...
You said they are 9yo...does it mean that they need 9y as scions to reach that size?
They are not same ones, older ones.

Own-root Geohintonia will not reach that size in 9 years.
They all grafted for 2 years and degrafted. During grafted 2 years, they grew with very fast speed.

Frank
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Edwindwianto
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Edwindwianto »

Good mirning Frank
Thanks for all the knowledges...it's been very informatives...i'll keep them all 🙏

But sorry, for yet another train of question 🙏🙏🙏
Hanazono wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:36 am Pereskiopsis: 5 years
Hylocereus vascula bundle: 2 years
Does pereskiopsis always die in 5 years, even though they are used as above-ground-stock?
What if i grow then as a plant, i don't use them as a stock. Do they die in 5y too?
So i have to keep cutting them and rootting them?

Using this methode, how long does it take for the Geohintonia to re-root (have their own-root again)?
Hanazono wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:36 am Own-root Geohintonia will not reach that size in 9 years.
They all grafted for 2 years and degrafted. During grafted 2 years, they grew with very fast speed.
What is the size of 9yo own-root Geohintonia?

And, why did you degraft them in 2yo?
Is it because you only have 5y time (ie, the pereskiopsis die in 5y), so you need that 3y to make sure that the Geo re-root successfully?

Regards,
EDWIN
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Hanazono
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Edwin,
Does pereskiopsis always die in 5 years, even though they are used as above-ground-stock?
What if i grow then as a plant, i don't use them as a stock. Do they die in 5y too?
So i have to keep cutting them and rootting them?
I described about the life of short stock in soil. I have not tried yet but I think Pereskiopsis will grow forever and will be in flower in your place.
Using this methode, how long does it take for the Geohintonia to re-root (have their own-root again)?
Since the lifes of short Pereskiopsis stocks are varied, can not say exact time but it is around 5 years.
If the life of short stock in soil was shoter, own-roots of scion will developed earlier
I have not confirmed the stock life with Geohintonia yet but it was confirmed with Ariocarpus kotschoubeyanus.
What is the size of 9yo own-root Geohintonia?
I do not know. I have never grown Geohintonia 9 years from seedling continuously.
I grafted seedlings and degrafted.
And, why did you degraft them in 2yo?
Is it because you only have 5y time (ie, the pereskiopsis die in 5y), so you need that 3y to make sure that the Geo re-root successfully?
I use very young off-shoots as grafting stocks.
Seedlings are grafted in spring and stocks loose leaves in 2nd winter.
You can not expect a good growing of scions from Pereskiopsis stocks lost leaves.
Scions also are grown quite large size at that time and it is hard to suppot by stock.
Degrafting scions in 2 years is my standard.

Frank
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Edwindwianto
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Edwindwianto »

Hanazono wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:25 pm G'morning Edwin,
Good morning Frank

Wow...thanks a lot for all the replies above
They serve as a lesson to me
Thanks for all the knowledge

EDWIN
MoneyDQx
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Re: Degrafting

Post by MoneyDQx »

Greeting Frank and everyone,

Good day to all of you.

Do you have the brand and the photos of the wet clay granules you are using?

Can i replace it with rooting powder?

Do you have the brand and the photos of the garden lime you are using?

Scare will buy the wrong one.

Thanks

Regard
Marcus
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Hanazono
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Marcus,
Do you have the brand and the photos of the wet clay granules you are using?

Can i replace it with rooting powder?

Do you have the brand and the photos of the garden lime you are using?
I am not sure where you live in and I am also not sure you could get same ones in your place.
I just buy products which are available locally.

Clay
The clay was cat litter which was burnt by low temperature.
It is not available now in here. Cat litter product is changed to raw clay.
I use remained burnt clay.

You can not replace it by rooting powder.
You can use any permeable materials for the purpose.

Garden lime
Please have a look the attached photo.
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Garden lime
Garden lime
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MoneyDQx
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Re: Degrafting

Post by MoneyDQx »

Hi Frank,

Good day to all of you.

Thanks for you reply and the picture of garden lime.

I live in Singapore.

Can you advise what other permeable materials can i use?

You mean you DIY clay granules by burning the cat litter in low temperature or you bought it as what it is.

Quote

Clay
The clay was cat litter which was burnt by low temperature.
It is not available now in here. Cat litter product is changed to raw clay.
I use remained burnt clay.

Unquote

Thanks

Regard
Marcus
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Hanazono
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Hanazono »

G'morning Marcus,
Can you advise what other permeable materials can i use?

You mean you DIY clay granules by burning the cat litter in low temperature or you bought it as what it is.
Possible other permeable materials are pumice sand, crashed red brick, crashed scoria, zeolite etc.
Scoria: volcanic rock
Zeolite: permeable crashed rock

I bought cat litter which was bunt by lower temperature.
Coase part was used for pot-bottom material.
Fine part was used as degrafting filler and also was mixed in seed rising potting-mix after removed dust.
Since the consumption of fine is small, I still keep large amount of fine.

Frank
MoneyDQx
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Re: Degrafting

Post by MoneyDQx »

Hi Frank,

Good day to all of you.

Thanks for you reply.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Regard
Marcus
lunaelliot
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Re: Degrafting

Post by lunaelliot »

Hi Hanazono

I have just bought a A. Myrio grafted on a myrtilocactus. I am just wondering what would be the best way to degraft it and is it possible to use the vascular bundle method?

Thanks!
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Hanazono
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Re: Degrafting

Post by Hanazono »

G' morning Iunaelliot,
I have just bought a A. Myrio grafted on a myrtilocactus. I am just wondering what would be the best way to degraft it and is it possible to use the vascular bundle method?
You can not use the vascular bundle method for myrtilocactus stock.
There are two possible degrafting methods but it depends upon the size of scion.

If more than 3 cm in diameter
A normal degrafting is recommended.
This size of A. myriostigma is easy to root without rotting/drying up.

If less than 3 cm in diameter
Degrafting with a short stock is recommended.
The stock length is around 3 cm and dry for 3 weeks.
The stock will be buried in soil.
You can keep as it is but you can go to a normal degrafting when the scion reached to more than 3 cm in diameter.

Frank
lunaelliot
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Re: Degrafting

Post by lunaelliot »

Hanazono wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:18 pm G' morning Iunaelliot,
I have just bought a A. Myrio grafted on a myrtilocactus. I am just wondering what would be the best way to degraft it and is it possible to use the vascular bundle method?
You can not use the vascular bundle method for myrtilocactus stock.
There are two possible degrafting methods but it depends upon the size of scion.

If more than 3 cm in diameter
A normal degrafting is recommended.
This size of A. myriostigma is easy to root without rotting/drying up.

If less than 3 cm in diameter
Degrafting with a short stock is recommended.
The stock length is around 3 cm and dry for 3 weeks.
The stock will be buried in soil.
You can keep as it is but you can go to a normal degrafting when the scion reached to more than 3 cm in diameter.

Frank
Hi Frank

Thank you for your reply. My astrophytum is around 3cm and I am planning to degraft with a short stock. After cutting the stock shorter, how do I help it dry and callous? Do I need to stick it to anything?
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