Eriosyce identification?

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JustSayNotoCactus
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Eriosyce identification?

Post by JustSayNotoCactus »

I know someone here might have an idea which eriosyce this is. The second picture is its fellow seedling, scheduled to bloom any day now.

Thanks in advance,
Chris
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JustSayNotoCactus
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Re: Eriosyce identification?

Post by JustSayNotoCactus »

Ok, before anybody says anything, yes I am an idiot, and did not notice the tag saying "crispa FK78" in my post asking for and ID. I guess the title should have read "Hey, look at my E. crispa FK78" or something like that. I guess I'm not as observant as I thought I was.

Cheers,
Chris
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Daniel
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Re: Eriosyce identification?

Post by Daniel »

No idiot I know has an awesome plant like that in their collection! Those flowers are amazing :D
-Daniel

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DaveW
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Re: Eriosyce identification?

Post by DaveW »

FK 78, Eriosyce crispa, from Huasco, Freirina, 2km west of Maitencillo, Chile, south side of road, 300m. If you want full details. :D
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JustSayNotoCactus
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Re: Eriosyce identification?

Post by JustSayNotoCactus »

Thanks Daniel, and thanks DaveW for the full details. Is that from the Ketterman book, or do you have a different source for that information?

I'd also like to get your opinion on summertime watering for Eriosyce, I have read that it is a good idea to cut back on watering when it is very hot in late summer. I get the impression that the coastal marine layer of fog dries up when it gets hot just like it does here and in W South Africa in the summer. Has anyone ever lost this type of plant on hot days after watering??
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Eriosyce identification?

Post by Steve Johnson »

JustSayNotoCactus wrote:I'd also like to get your opinion on summertime watering for Eriosyce, I have read that it is a good idea to cut back on watering when it is very hot in late summer. I get the impression that the coastal marine layer of fog dries up when it gets hot just like it does here and in W South Africa in the summer. Has anyone ever lost this type of plant on hot days after watering??
I can only speak for Eriosyce senilis and odieri under cultivation since that's what I grow. They seem to be pretty much polar opposites:

1. E senilis -- a cool-weather grower. Infrequent watering in Winter is fine, although freezing with any moisture in the soil will kill it. Spring is the best time for growth and more frequent watering, but watch out for heat when the plant stops growing. Trying to water in the high heat of Summer will turn senilis into a puddle of goo.

2. E. odieri -- a Summer grower, won't tolerate watering at all in Winter. Doesn't like cool and cloudy in Spring either. I can count the number of times I was able to water my odieri this Spring on the fingers of one hand. That's my coastal microclimate all over. Now that Summer is hot enough, I'll be watering it every 2 weeks. Even though the marine layer in my area will want to come back here and there, it doesn't last long enough to be a problem this time of year. What happens when it gets too hot for the plant? Unfortunately I can't advise you there, since that's not a problem for me either -- marine layer or not, relatively high humidity all the time avoids the "dry as a popcorn fart" conditions typical for the more inland areas of California.

By the way, maybe I shouldn't talk about senilis at all since it's a Neoporteria. How it got lumped in with Eriosyce is beyond me, but just one example of why I don't have much interest in what the taxonomists are up to.
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DaveW
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Re: Eriosyce identification?

Post by DaveW »

My original FK list came from Fred Kattermann himself and I put it on computer, so this and other lists I had on computer amounting to several thousand entries were used along with some from others as the start of Ralph Martin's collection number database:-

http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/Cacti/fieldno.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can't say I have ever modified my watering for any Eriosyce, but then Britain is not a hot climate.

Regarding Neoporteria and Eriosyce. In 1966 John Donald and Gordon Rowley lumped most of what we now call Eriosyce into Neoporteria, including Neochilenia, Pyrrhocactus (sensu Backeberg and sensu Ritter) Horridocactus, Thelocephala and of course including Neoporteria itself. John Donald told me at the time really Eriosyce sensu stricto ought to be included as well, but they left it out because at that time it was a little known genus and being the oldest generic name it would take priority, meaning so many name changes for well known plants. However later Fred Katterman "bit the bullet" and combined it and made all the required name changes. Ideally if they could have legally chosen a name for the group including Eriosyce, but ignoring priority, I guess Neoporteria would have won.

Obviously Neoporteria has a rather different flower to the rest, but some maintain that E. chilensis is really a Neoporteria that has simply developed a flower for different pollinators, therefore the flower difference between Neoporteria and the other Eriosyce is not diagnostic. E. chilensis is very Neoporteria like out of flower and mistaken for E. subgibbosa:-
chilensis6.jpg
chilensis6.jpg (147.71 KiB) Viewed 1756 times
Certainly more work needs doing on the group such as DNA Sequencing.

Speaking with Marlon Machado a few years ago when he was working on the Notocactae, they tested outliers for relationships and he indicated this cladogram I later compiled was more or less what they found for relationships within Eriosyce:-
Eriosyce-Diag.jpg
Eriosyce-Diag.jpg (21.58 KiB) Viewed 1756 times
If the above were split into separate genera at the points indicated the generic names listed would take priority. Of course you can retain them all as individual genera as listed on the top line, you are not bound to accept anybody's classification. The "rules" only dictate what names are validly published and which take priority when combining genera.

Of course Marlon was not working on Eriosyce at the time, so others may have come to different conclusions since as DNA Sequencing seems to be in it's infancy at the moment and different workers produce different results. Even classifications based on the much older discipline of morphology are constantly changing and often merely matters of opinion dressed up as scientific fact. :D
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Re: Eriosyce identification?

Post by CactusFanDan »

If you hadn't have noticed the label I would've said E. crispa anyway. Lovely plant! :) My Eriosyce get watered the same as every other Summer grower, but once again, our climates are vastly different.
-Dan
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iann
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Re: Eriosyce identification?

Post by iann »

Don't let any of the tap-rooted Eriosyce sit in wet soil for too long. That means careful watering when it is cool and humid. I haven't seen any heat-related problems but then whatever the daytime heat might be in my greenhouse it always cools down at night.
--ian
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Re: Eriosyce identification?

Post by CoronaCactus »

Don't ya just love pine trees..... :evil:
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