A new source for information...

Share information on Cacti Books, Websites, Periodicals, etc.
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Peterthecactusguy
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A new source for information...

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

From the DBG and Tropicos (Missouri Botanical Gardens):

http://www.livingcollections.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This tool allows you to search all of the plants in the collection at Desert Botanical Garden, and compare them with plants at Missouri Botanical Garden. (IE the place that got all of Engelmann's plants) (edit) or vice versa :)

http://www.livingcollections.org
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
A. Dean Stock
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Location: 40 south 7440 east Kanab, Utah (Johnson Canyon)

Re: A new source for information...

Post by A. Dean Stock »

Peter,
I'm much less than impressed with the input from the DBG on that site. I tried looking up information on a number of their plants and other than finding that they have some that is about the extent of the infomation you are going to get. I only looked at Opuntia but they claim all are protected and hide all location or other data. This is done even on Zion Nat. Park plants where one couldn't collect them anyway. Did I miss something???
Dean
Albert Dean Stock,Ph.D.
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Peterthecactusguy
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Re: A new source for information...

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

um they just started inputting the information, they are supposed to be adding to it. however after I looked around a bit they seem to not be taking it seriously, they had pictures of a bottle of water on one of the OPuntia and no data.. like not the information I was expecting so yeah.. I don't think you did Dean. Sorry.

As for the information on sites like SEINET they have generic information, a lot of the data points to a place that is less than a mile from where I live in a parking lot.. a few of the DBG people were there at some point. and linked all the information to one spot. Obviously Opuntia engelmannii, phaeacantha and all the other cacti located at the Aqua Fria National Monument ARE not located in one spot.
I understand the need to keep rare plants AWAY from the people that would steal them out of habitat but at the same time I would like to know where they are. I wouldnt mind being able to find some in habitat.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
A. Dean Stock
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Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:41 am
Location: 40 south 7440 east Kanab, Utah (Johnson Canyon)

Re: A new source for information...

Post by A. Dean Stock »

I agree Peter, how in the world could people ever overcollect O. engelmannii and O.phaeacantha and their hybrids across Arizona. Same applies to O. polyacantha varieties such as var. erinacea. Makes no sense at all to me.
Dean
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Peterthecactusguy
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Re: A new source for information...

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

Dean,
It is pretty silly. I do understand protecting some plants. Cristate saguaros are an example. However common Opuntia that are I think probably impossible to kill with anything short of a nuclear bomb should be ok to have the range information for. After all if plants are like say on the AFNM I won't take them anyways, the only exception might be if I have a cholla segment stuck on my clothes or my shoes. I had one stuck in the side of my shoe, and I planted it. I don't know where I picked up the "hitch-hiker" but I saw no harm in putting it into the ground. I didnt even know it was in my shoe til I got home. TBH, I have enough O. engelmannii and O. phaeacantha (and their hybrids) that I don't need anymore. I have volunteers that pop up in my yard, so I dont need anymore. I got tons I dont know what to do with too. I was very disappointed with that link, but hopefully they will work on it and get it fixed so that people like me who have an interest in cacti can learn more information about them, or for more advanced users like you Dean give you all the data that you could possibly want. I enjoy cacti, and I really wish I could visit more of them in habitat. I have already been to some pretty neat places in AZ, but I have barely scratched the surface..
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
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Saxicola
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Re: A new source for information...

Post by Saxicola »

Peter,

If you'd like to see what *could* be done for Arizona if the various herbaria in the state got together, look at these websites for the California flora. Since CA is a bigger state with a bigger flora, there is no reason it couldn't be done where you are.

http://www.calflora.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/consortium/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can get herbarium label data and even look at maps with exact localities for all kinds of plants. For the heck of it I looked up your state plant, but one that is very rare in California, Carnegia gigantea. I got about 20 records, 16 of which were individually mapped in that little corner of CA that sticks into AZ just south of Lake Havasu and one record just north of Yuma.


http://berkeleymapper.berkeley.edu/run. ... pe=Terrain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm now selling plants on Ebay. Check it out! Kyle's Plants
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Peterthecactusguy
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Re: A new source for information...

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

Yes, Saxicola, I think I have looked up C. gigantea on Califlora and I saw the same thing. Considering those are endangered plants in Cali... Thanks for the links tho, I will check them out. I am one of those people that thinks that information is important and that as long as their is interest that it should be easy to get. AZ's way makes it hard for someone who is interested in plants to learn about the plants around them. SEINET has some listings but they usually don't include all plants. ESP if it's rare or unusual. I could understand in Cali if you had a crested sagauro for them to not publish where it is.. however saguaros in AZ are common, and it's not like you aren't going to notice them if you drive down any road anywhere in their range. I know where a crested one is. (there was another one but it died).
I think my point is that for research etc you need to be able to find plants in habitat. I am not saying I am going to look up some rare plant and steal it, but being able to see one in habitat would be interesting.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
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Saxicola
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Re: A new source for information...

Post by Saxicola »

Peterthecactusguy wrote: I think my point is that for research etc you need to be able to find plants in habitat. I am not saying I am going to look up some rare plant and steal it, but being able to see one in habitat would be interesting.
I agree with you. Part of what I was getting at was that California seems to be fine with putting all that data on the net and I haven't heard reports of people pillaging the landscape by using label data, and we have more rare endemics than anywhere in the US (as a general statement about the flora, not sure about succulents specifically). So the folks in AZ shouldn't just arbitrarily decide to withhold the data when they can easily contact the people behind the CalFlora project to find out what they've done and what problems if any they ran into.

I should point out that if you are a legitimate researcher it is usually pretty easy to get the locality data you need for your research. I'm not saying I support an elitist program where you have to have a PhD to see the data, just that people that really need this information can get it. I think data should only be withheld on the rarest and most sensitive plants if there is a real danger of serious damage to the species. Otherwise the information should be available for all (especially since most herbaria and botanical research are largely funded by taxpayers directly or indirectly).
I'm now selling plants on Ebay. Check it out! Kyle's Plants
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Peterthecactusguy
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Re: A new source for information...

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

Yes you sorta hit on what I was getting at... about how the data should be available to all but in certain circumstances. That way if someone has just a passing interest in a certain plant they can find more information about out it.. IE climate, locations, flower colors, etc. I have become somewhat frustrated with trying to find out information about specific plants. I realize that probably very few if any people actually care that much about Opuntia and Cylindropuntia that are growing locally around Black Canyon City, but it doesn't mean the information shouldn't be posted somewhere.

The same thing is true with some of the strange rare hybrids that are around here (once again mostly Opuntia/Cylindropuntia) however I find plants to be interesting, and while I have no botany training I can tell distinct differences between different forms. I don't know if they are just local variants, named variants or just part of the main species with minor charater traits.

BTW I don't know enough about the DNA and gene traits and all of that to actually take a plant and be like AHA it's this.. because it's got this trait or this DNA sequence in its genes either.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
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