Opuntia of Orlando, Florida - pic heavy

[m1chae1]

Any chance of getting a pad of the O. ammophila? Thanks. Michael

[Mr Monopoly]

I'll keep a look out for this when I go to Orlando on March 22nd.

[Peterthecactusguy]

dunno how I missed this post but those looks sorta O. humifusa looking to me, but as Dean said they might really be distantly related and so O. ammophila maybe a valid name, maybe not.
As for taking cuttings I dont have a problem with that, so long as you didn't destroy the plants. If the new owner likes the plants then it might be a problem if you destroy them. I would regard it like pruning a shrub. leave about 2/3s of the mass.

[A. Dean Stock]

A new study just out by Lucas Majure, et al. CompCytogen 6 (1) 53-77 (2012). Cytogeography of the Humifusa clade of Opuntia----presents a lot of new data regarding this complex of species in Florida and the southeast. He has more to come on DNA relationships among Opuntia species.
Dean

[paulzie32]

I spoke to Daniel Green and even sent him some pictures of this plant. He is confident it is O. polycarpa. I had never heard of O. polycarpa, but I will take his word for it. So, if anyone happens to be saving images and wants to correctly label this one....

[A. Dean Stock]

I'm not familiar with Daniel Green's expertise in Opuntia taxonomy but the name O. polycarpa is not one I've seen for any U.S. population. If the plant is diploid then it is likely O. ammophila. The curent taxonomic authority on this group of plants is Dr. Lucas Majure in Florida at the Florida Museum of Natural History. I'll see if I can get him to take a look at the photos.
Dean

[paulzie32]

Here's a link to the Opuntiads website with a description and more images. Looks like the same plant - http://opuntiads.com/O/opuntia-n-z/opun ... polycarpa/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[A. Dean Stock]

I contacted Dr. Lucas Majure in Florida concerning O. polycarpa and he says it is an old name that is not used anymore. He indicated what the plant is likely to be but I'd like him to get a look at the photos and give his assessment. Bottom line is that O.polycarpa is not the name to use. The Opuntiads site will usually only give you old names that are no longer used for many Opuntia. I'd love to have the oportunity to "clean it up".
Dean

[Onzuka]

Not quite on this subject, but I have a question. I grow O. compressa (humifusa) in Yorkshire, England, and it looks terrible in the winter. It changes to a shade of purple/brown and dehydrates. It is hardy in my climate. Does it look this way in winter in warmer climates such as Florida?

Steve

[paulzie32]

Yes. In Central to North Florida anyway. We have our dry season during winter and there's very little rain. I'm in Tampa and they always look shriveled and get purpley... is that a word?
I had visited Pensacola in autumn and have seen O. humifusa along the beach that was starting to shrivel. It had been a rainy weekend, but you can see a few pads in this pic.
http://s12.beta.photobucket.com/user/pa ... ort=3&o=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This was a close up of a small caterpillar but you can see the Purple in the pads - http://s12.beta.photobucket.com/user/pa ... ort=3&o=18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; showing.

You can see in this pic how they are all laying flat too - http://s12.beta.photobucket.com/user/pa ... ort=3&o=26" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's some O. pusilla that was quite purple already. And may of the plants in this area were hybrids of the two and had more purple than others... I'm guessing O. pusilla turns purple sooner.
http://s12.beta.photobucket.com/user/pa ... ort=3&o=11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@Dean - I'm guessing you're a lumper? I'm more of a splitter and do not see how this arborescent plant could be related to O. humifusa unless it is hybridized. I understand there are variations within a population, but I've seen large areas of these plants and not one typical looking O. humifusa anywhere. The plant in the photo is found around Orlando and is about the only type I have seen around there. The pads are smaller than most O. humifusa plants I've seen and the Spination is quite different.
If you've been to Florida, you can find different populations of different types of Opuntias growing in different areas. Around Port St. Lucie I have found O. ammophila, which is also Arborescent but has much larger and rounder pads than the plant in question. The Spination is also very different.
Up in the panhandle, I only found typical O. humifusa, O. pusilla and an apparent hybrids of the two. None of these were arborescent.

I wouldn't doubt all these plants have a common ancestor, but that shouldn't make them all O. humifusa. It just would seem like too easy a way to name plants... All Opuntia along the eastern USA with small pads are O. humifusa and all with large pads are O. dillenii. Which is another good example... There was once two plants, O. stricta and O. dillenii and now they seem to have been lumped together as just O. dillenii, but if you compare plants in the Tampa area, there are some that are Quite different. I do have some pics but they're pretty bad and were taken with my old blackberry a few years back.
I can post them later if you'd like

[Onzuka]

It may sound strange, but my humifusas seem to anticipate the winter and dehydrate long before the cold arrives. They are also one of the last ones to restart into growth. They do, however, flower easily and profusely from quite a small size.

Steve

[peterb]

There was some very detailed but also flawed work on the Opuntia of Florida by JK Small and a couple others. Some of that early taxonomy is interesting to look at. Still available in Britton and Rose and elsewhere. But the usual problems with phenotypes, herbarium specimens, etc. etc. resulted in a lot of combinations. It remains to be seen how many of the old names could still be valid. I'm not sure anyone is really doing the necessary lab and field work to revisit and re-evaluate the status of these Florida plants. I don't think much cactus research gets done in Florida. Could be wrong!

peterb

[A. Dean Stock]

That gave me a good chuckle Paulzie: inferring that I'm a lumper would get a real snort out of the people that put together FNA and Intermountain Flora. I did not infer that the plants were O. humifusa but they are in the same clade. I follow the best and most recent research on the group you are talking about and I've had access to some of the DNA and chromosome data that will soon be published on this complex. Dr. Lucas Majure lives in Florida and is currently working on the group. If I can get him to comment here it will solve some of the problems based on the older data. If not then I'll quote some of what he e-mailed me in response.
Dean

[paulzie32]

I'm sorry Dean. I read your post too fast. Even Danny said the same thing... Same Clade. So sorry. Hope that wasn't taken as an insult
Glad to hear Someone has done some DNA studies on them... Can't wait to hear what he says.

[peterb]

Aha, so I was wrong. In cactus taxonomy and research, as in everything else, I rely on being incorrect.

peterb