Hybrids in or not?

madadi · Post by **madadi** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:23 pm

So generally if i like the way a cacti looks ill buy it but i have a question for the more seasoned collectors here. do you try to avoid hybrids and stick to collect by species for the most part? might be a weird questions but just curious.

Sulcofan · Post by **Sulcofan** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:29 pm

Not a weird question at all!

But I'm in two minds about hybrids

There's no doubt that they can be be a thing of beauty and of interest. However, from a botanical point of view, my preference will remain with species, preferably those with field collection data. Both hybrids and species have a place in my collection.

christos · Post by **christos** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:06 pm

I think it's a good question!

For now, because things and tastes change over time, I favour pure species.

No cultivar, no monstrose, no cristata, however rare and beautiful they may be.

The only exception are natural hybrids, that are results of crossbreeding between sympatric species(species that their habitat is or has become the same because of natural expantion).

In that way, Ferocactus californicus, Melocactus albicephalus etc. are not only a welcome addition to my collection(which they are already actually) but as taxonomy is concerned, I consider them to be stand alone species, perfectly deserving such a status, as other older natural hybrids like Echinocactus grusonii!

iann · Post by **iann** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:17 pm

Stuck on species here. I do have a selection of Lithops cultivars, but they are mutants rather than hybrids. Cultivars are quite rare in cacti, partly because everything that looks even slightly different got a new species name

There is a group of growers addicted to unusual forms and colours, particular in Astrophytum, Ariocarpus, Haworthia, Sanseveira, and perhaps a few others. These forms are often the result of hybridisation, but not always documented or even known. The more desirable results are highly sought after, just not by me

luddhus · Post by **luddhus** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:05 pm

Mostly pure species, plus a few hybrids selected for their flowers. No monstrose, crested or variegated/chlorophyll-free forms.

Christer Johansson · Post by **Christer Johansson** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:24 pm

I try to collect pure species with field number or/and origin data.

Edit: But if I should collect Echinopsis or Epiphyllym I would except hybrids/cultivars for sure; they have the biggest and most colorful flowers

Harriet · Post by **Harriet** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:35 pm

I am not by any means as "seasoned" as most collectors here, but my limited experience started with choosing plants (often hybrids) for their flowers. Now I am moving more toward species, and a greater appreciation of spines and the shapes and colors of the plants themselves.

But, if I am totally honest, my choices are made because of the visceral reaction I have to pictures of the plants. And often times, when I get the plants, it is in hopes that I can eventually cause it to live up to the possibilities I see in the pictures. This is especially true of Euphorbia and plants that form a caudex...

Buckethead · Post by **Buckethead** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:03 am

I got my first plant less than two years ago and so far I try to go with pure species. I want to grow what grows in the wild.

Peterthecactusguy · Post by **Peterthecactusguy** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:49 am

Interesting question.

I have built my collection up in about a year to a year and a half. Most of my collection is pure, however where I live there is natural hybridization so I have several "hybrids" growing in my yard that have characteristics of several named species. (I like Opuntia and some of them readily reproduce with other species. There are a bunch of prickly pear hybrids available as well, I have a few that someone sent me and I welcome them, mostly cause I love spines so no matter what color the flowers are, I will be happy)

madadi · Post by **madadi** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:08 am

thanks for the replies guys. at first i was not picky but since the space will be limited soon, i like to build my collection by species but i cant resist the occasional hybrid

one more question, do hybrid seeds produce plants that look the same as the parent hybrid and to all seeds from one pod look the same? or does each seedling come out with different combinations of the two original species' traits. if a natural hybrid has occurred, what stops it from being classified as a new species? if the two original species it came from becomes extinct, would it still be considered a hybrid and can it continue to multiply on its own?

Peterthecactusguy · Post by **Peterthecactusguy** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:15 am

Madadi,
some Opuntia that are natural hybrids are recognized as at least a hybrid and others are considered a new species sometimes.

TimN · Post by **TimN** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:30 am

I buy plants I like. Sometimes (most times?) I don't know what it is when I'm buying it. The tag with the plant isn't usually very helpful. I'm sure I'll have plants for years that I'll never know the "true" identity of. That doesn't disturb me in the least.

I think it's an interesting artifact when you have a collection number, but that's about it.

I'm not really that into "sets" of things, so I don't collect cactus like that. If it's a cool looking plant, I'm in!

So, to answer your question, yes.

Post by **daiv** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:40 am

I'm another species guy. However, I've got a few "token" hybrids (Echinopsis and Epiphyllum) along with my handful of non-cactus succulents. With either of these, I can't say that I "grow" them so much as I just let them live if they can handle the neglect. It mostly stems from my difficulty in getting rid of any plant.

Arjen · Post by **Arjen** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:19 am

I guess I collect a lot like tim, I mostly buy what I like and have no problem with hybrids, however I do have a wishlist and there are no hybrids on it.
I have no love for all the weird astro and ario cultivars.

to answer your second question, both are possible.
there are hybrids that are known to have seedlings 'reverting' others will look a lot like the parent plant.

A. Dean Stock · Post by **A. Dean Stock** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:28 am

Many of the polyploid Opuntia species developed from hybrid populations. The stage at which a natural hybrid population is considered a distinct species and named as such is sometimes arbitrary but rests on whether the population is genetically at a stable ploidy level and with little or no meiotic abnormalites. It also requires a distinct geographic range. It often depends on the views of the taxonomist working on a specific species complex as to whether a stable population is recognized at the subspecies or variety level or as a full species. I tend to treat all allopatric populations of a related comlex as full species if they differ in ploidy level. As an example, I consider Opuntia nicholii to be a full species rather than a variety of O. polyacantha due to its spine morphology and hexaploid chromosome count. There are Opuntia taxonomists of note that do not agree.
Many hybrid Opuntia are more vigorous and with nicer flowers than either parent. I have huge swarms of hybrids here between O. aurea and O. pinkavae. In these populations are plants with unique spine and flower qualities. In addition there are a few choice forms of hybrids between O. phaeacantha and O. pinkavae x O. aurea. Not too far away are hybrid swarms of O.polyacantha x O. aurea. I collect the best of these and since I know what they are they are as welcome in my cactus garden as any pure species.

Dean