Epis with reddish newgrowth

[nachtkrabb]

Since loads of years I have a couple of Epis of different stock. Yes, I expect them to be hybrids of some sort or another.
What I think interesting is their newgrowth:
* In some plants it starts green with a red rim at the "leaves", which later is lost.
* In some plants, the leaves start dark red, ie. without chlorophyllium, & turn green only when they are quite big.
Do you know this behaviour, too? What do you know about it, besides that hybrids of course do different things according to their heritage?
Added are pictures of three plants, one with red rims & two red-starters.
Nachtkrabb
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Plant 3 with extra dark red "leaf".

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Plant 1: Beautiful but red.

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Plant 1 again, but a couple of weeks (?) later.

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Plant 1 again, weeks (?) later when the "leaves" turn green.

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Plant 2 with red brims not on "leaves" but three-cornered "columns".

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[DaveW]

Yes my Schlumbergera gaertneri also does it with new segments. Its all down to light intensity and as the segment ages it turns green. Maybe the equivalent of humans tanning to protect against too much UV light for young shoots.

As long as the shoots are not damaged and turn green later nothing to worry about. Often called "Sun Colour" or "Stress Colour" in many Succulents. However your plants don't look unduly stressed. The new shoots do have chlorophyll but that is protected by the red epidermis at first to cut down the amount of UV received from sunlight.

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[nachtkrabb]

Yes my Schlumbergera gaertneri also does it with new segments. Its all down to light intensity and as the segment ages it turns green. Maybe the equivalent of humans tanning to protect against too much UV light for young shoots.

What does your plant do? Are the whole of the new segments reddish, or just a brim?

(...) Often called "Sun Colour" or "Stress Colour" in many Succulents. However your plants don't look unduly stressed. The new shoots do have chlorophyll but that is protected by the red epidermis at first to cut down the amount of UV received from sunlight.

Hallo Dave,
sure many (inddors) plants turn reddish when they come out into the full sun, or outdoors / wild plants look quite reddish. But that is something different. Here the new shoots grow red & turn green in due time, this is most definitely no stress reaction. The plants are as relaxed as a plant can be. They obviously love their summer place on the balcony (& might miss it now that the nights are too cold for them to stay outside).

I am not worried at all but curious about that interesting behaviour: The colours of many flowers e.g., seen with UV-sight, show clear landing marks for bees or other pollinators to tell them where the goodies are. But red new stems? Is there any "sense" or "purpose" in it, or it is just how they do it?
N.

[DaveW]

My Schlumbergera stems are totally red when new and small but turn green a few weeks later as they grow. Epiphytes are usually lower light plants that grow in the dappled shade of other vegetation in habitat and seldom fully out in the open.

See:-

https://gardenforindoor.com/cactus-turn ... 20of%20red.

https://www.thespruce.com/epiphyllum-52 ... om%20plant.

Epiphyllum's grow in similar habitats to Schlumbergera in the link below, in shade under trees rather than fully in the open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7jYUxglNWY

[nachtkrabb]

Hey Dave, I am growing cacti for over 45years now, I started as an eight year old kid. I know that plants turn red in too much direct sun.
But I am talking about some other behaviour: Please look at the pictures, the overall plants DO NOT turn reddish at all, they are basking in the sun. This is why I leave them there for the summer.
N.

[greenknight]

I've never seen any with new growth as red as that first one, but it is a common trait in plants of this group. Maybe it's because the new growth is soft and needs more protection.

[nachtkrabb]

Hallo Greenknight,
The new stalks really are very soft & tender, their skin of older stalks is by far tougher.
Would you kindly please explain: How could the red colour or missing chlorophyllum protect the new growth from what?
Thanks
N.

[greenknight]

The red pigment blocks sunlight. The soft new growth is not as dense, so the sun would penetrate more deeply than it does on mature growth - that's my theory, anyway.

[Minnesota]

Spence's thought parallels my own thinking: the initial pigmentation is a protective mechanism to the new growth. I would wonder if the chlorophyll is developing and underlying the pigmentation, and the pigmentation fades as the chlorophyl becomes more pronounced in growth. Sort of like in trees in the fall--when the chlorophyll fades, the underlying pigmentation appears for us to see the color.

B

[nachtkrabb]

Thank you guys. Just... in school, "a couple of days ago", I learned it the other way round for trees. I remember as it did impress me vrey much.

The trees leaves would be red, yellow or white if it were not for the chlorophyll. This is why they look those colours when leaves start to unfold & grow, in my region usually in spring.

Then the tree adds the chlorophyll to the leaves & they look green. This is the look of our summer. The trees usually are quite quick in adding the chlorophyll, they want the leaves to take part in photosynthesis.

In our autumn, the trees drag back their precious chlorophyll to store them for the next year. Now we see the fullgrown leaves "in their own colours", ie. red, yellow or white. Then we have the lovely colours of our autumn / fall!

When in our autumn the tree has taken everything it needs from a leaf, it cuts off the leaf from supplies. Then the leave falls, turning bristely dry & brownish.

In tropical regions without such seasons, I would expect this cycle to happen all year round. We didn't talk about that, back then.

Now those cacti on the other side, they really take some time with their all-over-red stalks until they fill them up with chlorophyll. During that red period, which might go on for a fortnight or longer, those stalks need a lot of energy to grow but do not produce any energy at all -- no photosynthesis without chlorophyll.
Never have I seen such a behaviour in other cacti, eg. Mammillaria or Cereus. Their new cutlings have chlorophyll & thus produce energy from the very start, when I discover them for the first time.
Some grownd dwelling succulents as some Haworthias (H. trucata is a good example), they only show colourless, transparent "windows" of their stalks in the surface. The precious chlorophyll is hidden inside the stalks in the gound, where the plant also is protected from too much heat & evaporation. But when a new stalk is formed at my H. trucata, which is not hidden in the ground, I always see it in green & thus taking part in photosynthesis.

So I can't understand what those Epis gain from this elongated, unproductive "childhood" of a stalk?
I sincerely hope my question becomes clearer.
N.

Following you, the only thing that I can understand being protected, would be the chlorophyll. But why should it be protected in the new stalks & not in the old stalks? I can't understand this.

[Minnesota]

Hey, friend,

We're saying the same thing; we understand one another's intention. Spence has a good suggestion in that the reddish tone would protect new cell growth. The thickness of the blades would block light penetration better for the young cells while the plant's cuticle and epidermis grows. I guess I don't concern myself with this much with my epi's, and I enjoy the colour show while it lasts.

Happy Monday--

B

[nachtkrabb]

....aaaah, thank you, Minnesota, now I understand what you meant.
Yes, this is a good description I can go with very well.

Do have a good time, too!
Nachtkrabb