One of each

Share info and Pictures about gardens, parks, nurseries, and other locations with cacti.
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peterb
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One of each

Post by peterb »

I figured it might be interesting to compare the various Echinomastus forms that I've been posting, all in one post. From least spiny to most, which also happens to (roughly) coincide with the most eastern to the most western:

E. intertextus:

Image

E. erectocentrus:

Image

E. erectocentrus "acunensis":

Image

E. johnsonii "lutescens":

Image

E. johnsonii:

Image

peterb
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daiv
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Post by daiv »

You read my mind. I was thinking that as I was looking at the other post. Fun to compare the various form/species!
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
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tumamoc
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Post by tumamoc »

Very nice! That must be a young E. intertextus behind the larger? Did you say those were found in vicinity of Sonoita, AZ?
MichaelCactus
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Post by MichaelCactus »

Wow, the spines go from, tiny tight mass, to overrun mass of spines. I think im going to have to get a Johnsonii.
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Tony
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Post by Tony »

MichaelCactus wrote:Wow, the spines go from, tiny tight mass, to overrun mass of spines. I think im going to have to get a Johnsonii.
Im thinking I'd Like to have a couple of each. :)
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peterb
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Post by peterb »

Hey- Yes, just outside of Sonoita. An unlikely habitat. The area in general is, of course, stressed out by cattle ranching and retirement development. All the boomers want to have a ranch in AZ! Lots of very ominous No Trespassing signs everywhere. Not the most pleasant "wilderness" experience, really.

In cultivation, Echinomastus johnsonii has the rep of being "impossible." Similar to Echinocactus polycephalus. I think if you can grow it in heavy mineral mix with lots of grit and rock and give it baking dry heat all summer it would make it. I'm growing some from Mesa Garden seed this spring so we'll see.

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MichaelCactus
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Post by MichaelCactus »

Why is it so hard to grow, when it grows great out in the wild?
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peterb
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Post by peterb »

Hi Michael- That's a great question. Some plants seem to be very narrowly adapted to very particular soil, temperature and moisture conditions. Most of these "difficult" plants are of course "easy" under the right conditions. The trouble is providing those conditions reliably year after year. E. johnsonii rots very easily in cultivation. Benson says it occurs in areas with 5 inches/127 mm or less of rain a year. The populations in northwest AZ probably get more than that, but not by much. Humidity can rot off a plant even if it's not watered. Summers, the air temp can be at 110F/44C or higher many days and the soil surface temp can get as high as 140F/60C. Winters are cold with frequent frosts and usually fairly dry. The soil has to be absent of much organic matter, just plain weathered gritty desert "loam" and lots of rocks.

Recreating these conditions isn't as important for less narrowly adapted plants. A lot of the plants that grow along with E. johnsonii can grow under a broader range of moisture, temps, soil, etc.

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Lewis_cacti
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Post by Lewis_cacti »

yeah, it is surprising that the plant is hard to grow in cultivation whereas it survives in very harsh conditions in the wild. I guess the more adaptable and less specialised the plant the better it does in cultivation.
peterb
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Post by peterb »

Some plants are rare in cultivation because they are also rare in the wild, but once they get going among nursery workers and commercial concerns they thrive in cultivation. Cactus cultivation has come a long way only in the past 30 years or so, with certain growers developing much more effective techniques for large scale production of rare (extinct in the wild?) plants like Ariocarpus agavoides.

Some plants are rare in cultivation outside of their natural ranges because they die after a while in anything too far off their natural conditions. I've been thinking about plants in highly restricted ranges not due primarily to climate but to soil substrate. This restriction is "edaphic." What's especially odd is that certain species that are really very picky in the wild and are known to grow *only* on certain substrates (novaculite, for example, home to Echinocereus davisii and Escobaria minima) are a piece of cake in cultivation and grow well in a wide range of potting mixes, including ones with peat. Other species that have highly restricted ranges in the wild due to edaphic factors really don't translate to large scale cultivation in standard potting mixes. Even attempts to duplicate the soil substrate of these plants (Sclerocactus mesa-verdae, Echinocactus polycephalus, Echinomastus johnsonii, for example) don't really bear consistently positive results in regions removed from natural distributions.

In conversation with Steven Brack at Mesa Garden, he's mentioned that Echinomastus johnsonii is particularly difficult, even for him. When a grower who has such spectacular success with so many tricky species can't get one going, that really says something.

No one knows with any certainty what's really happening with some of these "difficult" plants. There's a lot of speculation. It's obvious the problem is in the root zone, as grafted seedlings grow like weeds. It's an area of slowly expanding understanding.

peterb
Last edited by peterb on Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MichaelCactus
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Post by MichaelCactus »

I really just cant understand that, i would have thought that takeing any plant out of crappy soil, putting it into nice healthy nutrient soil, its bound to do better.
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peterb
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Post by peterb »

Hi Michael- Sometimes it happens that there is a brief (6 month to 1 year) growth spurt in plants like Sclerocactus mesae-verdae when they are planted in high organic soils. But then they languish and die. Even if the soil is switched out.

My girlfriend thinks I've gone completely bonkers for lots of obvious reasons, not least of which is my excitement over desert soils when we're out on a hike. "Man, my Peniocereus plants would love this stuff!" I'll say, sifting through loosely aggregated eroded weathered dusty sand mixed with limestone and granite pebbles.

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Lewis_cacti
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Post by Lewis_cacti »

peterb wrote: My girlfriend thinks I've gone completely bonkers for lots of obvious reasons, not least of which is my excitement over desert soils when we're out on a hike. "Man, my Peniocereus plants would love this stuff!" I'll say, sifting through loosely aggregated eroded weathered dusty sand mixed with limestone and granite pebbles. peterb
:laughing3: hahaha i can imagine :lol:
kuni1234567
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Re: One of each

Post by kuni1234567 »

I have purchased many E. johnsonii and a few Echinocactus polycephalus and am trying to grow them in Southern California. I used the same type of soil and planted them in clay pots. I look at weather reports where the plants were grown and try to water accordingly. I believe the main reason why these plants are difficult to grow is the very arid condition where the plants are located. I live in an area with similar rain patterns, but the area has higher humidity and annual temperature are lower than where the plants are found. I have found that most plants grow better in similar environments and I wish that I could duplicate each environment with climate controlled greenhouses. I know that this is only a hobby and should not be taken too seriously.
kuni1234567
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Re: One of each

Post by kuni1234567 »

I am thinking about watering the plants only when it rains and see if the plants survive. The average rainfall where I live is about three times greater than locations where the plants are naturally found. I have some plants that were purchased in the beginning of the year and two plants have died out of twelve plants. I really like these plants and have started to grow seedlings
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