E. engelmannii in habitat

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peterb
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Post by peterb »

Ha, well, believe it or not, it does help. I will say that when I am in the range of the old boyce thomspsonii, it is instantly recognizable. If I were to see side by side plants of engelmannii and boyce thompsonii outside of context, probably not. Up around Bumble Bee, AZ are the most extreme forms of boyce thompsonii, with a gestalt that is noticeably different from the "acicularis" of the Valley of the Sun. As soon as one gets even as far east as Florence, engelmannii has morphed slightly yet again, and seems to have picked up some "fasciculatus"-like characters. It is a strange brew of Echinocereus over between Florence and Kelvin. Then, if you go far enough south, the rather clearly different nicholii starts to crop up. But it is easy without practice to just think that all yellow/gold spined engelmannii are nicholii. Not so at all. Once you see the real nicholii down around Ajo (or the oddball distribution near the Silver Bell Mine) it is instantly clear that it is a different (enough) form. Then there are the forms farther north: variegatus and chrysocentrus. Again, when I see them in habitat around Navajo Bridge or up around Meadview, instantly recognizable. But in a pot in a greenhouse? Not so sure. Same with armatus. Around Helendale or Newberry Springs, a definite identity.

So this entire topic fascinates me. I am especially fascinated by the gradual perception of finer and finer details that comes from being in habitat more often.

peterb
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A. Dean Stock
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Post by A. Dean Stock »

Agreed!! I try to spend as much time in habitat as possible. Photos are very confusing out of context and herbarium specimens are often worse in many respects. I don't know if you have seen the very small E. engelmannii that occur across the Arizona Strip but they are one of the extremes in the mix. I've not seen E. nicholii in habitat and would like to do so some time.

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Peterthecactusguy
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Post by Peterthecactusguy »

well this whole topic is interesting in that to me they all look similar. The only plant that I really saw as different was the darker (and shorter) spined plant.
Image This plant looks totally different from the others. It might be a hybrid, or maybe it's purely E. fasciculatus (at least I would assume so)

As I spend more time in the habitat I will probably be able to spot differences between them, esp if I visit some other areas of Arizona.

I live near Bumblebee so it shouldn't be too hard for me to swing up there at some point, but probably not until next week because it's supposed to rain, heavy up here.

(edit) Dean, I know exactly what you mean about that. I have seen plants that do not look anything like the ones I have near me labeled as such in other places. Maybe they are really them, but sometimes I think that the labels are wrong.

BTW thanks for your insight Dean.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
peterb
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Post by peterb »

I'll go way way out on a guessing flimsy limb and just say that is an engelmannii that has some fasciculatus genes in it. But this is just wild eyed and hysterical speculation. :-)

Dean, I haven't seen the small engelmannii from the Strip. I haven't ever visited the Strip territory and it's definitely on my list for this year.

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Peterthecactusguy
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Post by Peterthecactusguy »

PeterB,
Ok. Well I guess that I have a bunch more hybrid plants around me then, from a different species.

They sure are kinky what with hybridizing and all!
:)
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
Bonezy
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Post by Bonezy »

Great thread Peter - excellent topic and photos. Thanks for taking the time to share them. Two thumbs up! :D
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Peterthecactusguy
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Post by Peterthecactusguy »

yup no problem. I enjoy going into habitat and I enjoy figuring out what I found. :)
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Peterthecactusguy
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Ok an UPDATE!

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

Sorry it took so long to get these pics up. I took them all yesterday but photobucket wasn't cooperating with me, apparently they had it down for some reason or another.

ImageNew growth on my own E. engelmannii, or E. bryce-thompsonii.

Image2 offsets. I think the tip might not be too healthy. It hasn't grown at all this year and it put out 2 offsets. This was one of the rescued cacti from the flood so maybe it got damaged.

ImageThis one with buds on it is near the AFNM.

ImageIn the Agua Fria National Monument.

Image in the AFNM.

Image

Image3 buds all in bloom on the same day! :)

ImageThis plant would be almost invisible if it wasn't in bloom. The spines really blend in with the grass!

Image

Image

Imagepretty nice clump of them. This one is probably an E. bryce-thompsonii.

ImageA pinker flower, possibly a hybrid, or an E. fasciculatus.

ImageIt's impossible to get the purple to come out right in these flowers. I wish I could get the vivid purple to show better but it's impossible.

ImageOne near the now fallen down crested saguaro. I will post some pics of that somewhere else.

ImageMore of the lovely purpler flowers.

Imagea whole cluster of them in this clump!. Can't wait til I get one of these that will actually flower for me! :)

ImageOne that wasn't flowering that has some nice new growth on it and look at all the cool spines! :)

Image

Image

ImageOne with a few buds on it.

ImageOne of the ones with a much darker purple flower. Any idea what this one is? PeterB? Anyone else?

ImageOne with two flowers on it. These were pretty nice looking flowers.
ImageOne in flower with a M. grahamii that has some buds on it.

Imagedetails of the flowers. The little green things in the middle of the flowers(sorry I know the name of them but forget it at the moment!) are neat to look at. The one on the bottom was opened the day before, the one on top was opened for the first time that day.

ImageNot an Echinocereus but it's still neat. M. grahamii with buds on it that is next to the Echinocereus.

ImagePigs ate this one I think. It appears to have some fungus on it or something too, but it still budded out.
:)

Imagesame clump, this one is putting out some offsets instead of flowers. Wonder why they do that instead of putting out flower buds? Might be a clue as to what my own plant is doing. haha

Imageanother brilliant purple colored flower.
ImageWhole clump growing under a mesquite tree, I think.
Imagea clump with no buds under a palo verde tree.

Imagedouble header under a tree.

ImageA weird hybrid Cholla? Nope. A hidden Echinocereus :)

Image a nice clump. Details of the spines and tops of the plants along with the flower.

Image

Image

ImageThe flowers on this one weren't in as good of shape as the rest. Something either nibbled on it, or they might have been damaged by the recent cold weather we had, or maybe they were spent! :)

ImageAnother great purplish colored flower. I like the detail of the bud in the lower corner on the right :)

The next group of plants are located in a vacant lot along Coldwater Canyon Rd(which is now Coldwater Road, I live down the street from these.. a few blocks I guess you could say)


ImageA pink flowered one. Possibly an E. fasciculatus.

ImageAnother pink flowered Echinocereus.

Image

ImageA clump with a few dead stems near it. I don't take pictures of dead plants, but there were some in both the area around the vacant lot an in the AFNM. Many of the dead ones likely rotted during the winter either this year or last. We also had brutally cold winter temps this past winter which might have led to some of their demises too, although I think they are pretty cold tolerant.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
peterb
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Post by peterb »

Beautiful photos, I'd say they are all boyce-thompsonii. You are in boyce-thompsonii central, up there. This is along the lines of the classic form.

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Arjen
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Post by Arjen »

very interesting, this sure makes me wonder how they pinned names on them in the first place!
With apologies to the late Professor C. D. Darlington the following misquotation springs to
mind ‘cactus taxonomy is the pursuit of the impossible by the incompetent’ - Fearn & Pearcy, Rebutia (1981)
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Peterthecactusguy
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Post by Peterthecactusguy »

Arjen, I don't know. I am sorta confused by all the hybrids of everything around me ! I got the Opuntia settled I think tho! :)
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
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