Cactus plural

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Rod Smith
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Cactus plural

Post by Rod Smith »

Just a reminder of a basic rule.

One cactus is a cactus, not a cacti.

Two or more cacti are cacti, not cactus or cactuses.
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Re: Cactus plural

Post by majcka »

Rod Smith wrote:Just a reminder of a basic rule.

One cactus is a cactus, not a cacti.

Two or more cacti are cacti, not cactus or cactuses.
So?? You're enthusiast to one cactus????? :-k
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Rod Smith
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Re: Cactus plural

Post by Rod Smith »

majcka wrote:
Rod Smith wrote:Just a reminder of a basic rule.

One cactus is a cactus, not a cacti.

Two or more cacti are cacti, not cactus or cactuses.
So?? You're enthusiast to one cactus????? :-k
That's not what I said. ](*,)
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Re: Cactus plural

Post by daiv »

Hi Rod,
We've discussed the plural issue a few times here, but this thread is perhaps the most comprehensive:

http://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=24899" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In short, many people have strong personal preferences regarding the plural, but exclusive use of "cacti" is not a "rule" according to English language authorities.
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Rod Smith
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Re: Cactus plural

Post by Rod Smith »

Thanks for the link, Daiv. As you imply, it is a bit of an emotive subject; and of course I realise that some forum members are not native English speakers. A lot has changed since I started growing cacti in the late 1950s and the plural of cactus comes a long way down on the list.
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Re: Cactus plural

Post by peterb »

This is one of those issues that comes down whether one is a "descriptivist" or a "prescriptivist." Descriptivist dictionaries simply list the current common usage of the entries. Prescriptivist dictionaries include (usually) only the "correct" usage, and rarely refer to other "accepted" usage.

For a descriptivist, cactus, cactuses and cacti are equally correct, since they are all in current common usage. For a prescriptivist, "cacti" is the only correct plural form and the others are incorrect. Similar areas of heated controversy surround the use of the word "enormity," the use of "they" for the gender neutral singular pronoun, whether or not it is acceptable to split an infinitive and if it is acceptable usage to say "you are better than me." Etc. There is a long history of squabbling over the conventional rules of usage versus changes in usage that inevitably arise. It is a matter of opinion whether usage is incorrect, unconventional, informal, slang or simply wrong.

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Re: Cactus plural

Post by daiv »

Peterb, for a moment there I thought you were talking about cactus taxonomy! :lol:

In any case, usage always takes precedence. In your contrasting types of dictionaries, both follow usage - one just gives preference to OLDER usage.

Oh and another word that gets abused is "myself". The accepted usage on this is now changing too. People seem to think that somehow "myself" is a formal and sophisticated word, while "me" is crude and barbaric. Probably because of all the me/I usage where pedants berate the instances such as: "Me and Jimmy are going down to the park".

So now people say equally silly stuff like: "If anyone has any questions after the meeting, you can talk to either Ralph or myself." The "correct" word here is "me", as in "...talk to either Ralph or me."

But hey... what do myself know anyhow?
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Rod Smith
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Re: Cactus plural

Post by Rod Smith »

daiv wrote:Oh and another word that gets abused is "myself". The accepted usage on this is now changing too. People seem to think that somehow "myself" is a formal and sophisticated word, while "me" is crude and barbaric. Probably because of all the me/I usage where pedants berate the instances such as: "Me and Jimmy are going down to the park".

So now people say equally silly stuff like: "If anyone has any questions after the meeting, you can talk to either Ralph or myself." The "correct" word here is "me", as in "...talk to either Ralph or me."

But hey... what do myself know anyhow?
This is a recent phenomenon that I've noticed in the UK too. Of course, the English language is always changing and there will always be disagreements between "modern" users and "purists". I'm afraid the older one gets, the more some of the modern usage grates, but I, myself, will just have to get used to it.
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Re: Cactus plural

Post by Bruce »

Ah, the study of modern English usage. It's so fun!
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Re: Cactus plural

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Bruce wrote:Ah, the study of modern English usage. It's so fun!
It is isn't it. Since it is a computer era and most computer programs work in English and al this thing about globalisation.... Well Slovenian language is full of foreign words used in slang. Young people talk in such way some older people cannot understand it for their lives. ](*,)
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Re: Cactus plural

Post by daiv »

Hey, just for the record.... what is the "proper" plural of Euphorbia???
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Re: Cactus plural

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Euphorbias. I found that on the internet, and we all know that everything on the internet is true...
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Re: Cactus plural

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daiv wrote:Hey, just for the record.... what is the "proper" plural of Euphorbia???
Harriet wrote:Euphorbias. I found that on the internet, and we all know that everything on the internet is true...
I guess it depends on wether it is Euphorbia as an English word or Euphorbia as a Latin word. At least that is the case here. But I live far from you. Image
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Re: Cactus plural

Post by peterb »

The accepted style for a group of plants within the same genus is to use the genus name without alteration, I think. "I saw an entire hillside covered with Pediocactus." I don't think the Latin rules for plural formation are used anymore in this case. I still say "ferocacti" and stuff like that, but I think now one is supposed to say "Ferocactus." I sowed 5 different Ferocactus. I might be wrong about this style. Anyway, that would make the plural of Euphorbia "Euphorbia."

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Re: Cactus plural

Post by daiv »

I hear what you are saying here. I often notice Melocactus in plural are referred to as "Melocacti". There is even a book with this title: http://www.exoticplantbooks.com/detail/?product_id=103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One problem I have with plurals on genus names, etc. is how to tell if the added "s" at the end is supposed to be part of the name or not. In other words if I want to say something like:

"Many succulents are mistakenly thought to be cacti, but are not. Some examples are Euphorbias, Lithops, and Aloes."

In that case, I added an "s" to two but not to one as that is probably how I would speak it. But should it be:

"Many succulents are mistakenly thought to be cacti, but are not. Some examples are Euphorbia, Lithops, and Aloe."

What you say would tend to favor this second rendition.

There is, of course a third, which I suppose nobody would like:

"Many succulents are mistakenly thought to be cacti, but are not. Some examples are Euphorbias, Lithopses, and Aloes."
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