Flash for Macro Photography

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Jens
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Flash for Macro Photography

Post by Jens »

Hi, I´m thinking about buying a Flash device for close up flower photos.
I have a Nikon D200 and a Nikon D40 body to mount it onto.
The lens is a 40mm Mikro Nikkor.

The Nikon R1C1 has been recomended to me .

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Produc ... ystem.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It looks a little more bulky compared to an ordinary ring flash that is attached to the front of the lens.
Does anybody have a recomendation for one or the other?

Thanks J.
DaveW
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by DaveW »

Hi Jens,

Macro flash has changed in recent years. Originally many used ring flash. The first of these had a single circular flash tube which encircled the lens. They provided even but flat lighting. To provide some direction to the lighting photographers began either taping part of the tube to produce more directional lighting, or taping paper towel or tissue on half the tube to provide the same effect as in portraiture (and macro is only portraiture in miniature) where you have a main light one side and a weaker fill light the other. The ring light makers saw this and later started bringing out ring lights with two or more switchable segments where not only could one side be switched off or on, but the power ratio of the segments could be altered independently to provide different lighting intensities each side as in portraiture. The switchable ring light now seems to have changed into the R1C1 type macro light which both Nikon and Canon, make plus others, with two or more movable flashes around the ring that can be set to different power settings.

If you are only using the Nikon macro flash on the D200 Jens you only need the cheaper R1 version without the commander unit for the hot shoe since the D200 pop-up flash can act as commander. But you would need the R1C1 (the C = Commander) if you wish to use it on the D40 as well, but you can also use the Commander on the D200 instead of the pop-up flash.

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Produc ... ystem.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rather than me having duplicate everything here again, see the discussion on ring lights etc here:-

http://www.tipf.co.uk/index.php?/topic/ ... #entry5749" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Personally I would go for the more flexible R1C1 or R1 set-up rather than a traditional ring light. The only reason I did not was it was not recommended for my favourite, now discontinued, 70mm-180mm Micro Nikkor as unlike all the other Micro Nikkor's it has plastic filter threads on the lens front so Nikon don't recommend hanging an R1/R1C1 on them, but metal filter threads can carry it OK.

Sooner you get on the Cactus Mall site Daiv and we get rid of this stupid changing or disallowing of words like e-volve when I write "macro flash has e-volved in recent years" the better! I have never come across such words being disallowed on any other site! You cannot hold any sensible scientific discussion without using them and it is pointless in this day and age.
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Jens
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by Jens »

I was hoping for coment from you Dave , thanks for the information. I did register on the photography forum today but am not granted access to the posts in there yet.
In fact I already ordered the R1C1 but can still send it back- but after all I think I won´t..

Thanks again , Jens
DaveW
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by DaveW »

You need the commander unit if you want to use it on the D40 and you can use it in the D200 hotshoe instead of the pop-up flash anyway. Did not realise those posts were unreadable until you registered. Here was the one of mine concerned:-

"I can perhaps best show the progress of macro ringlights etc with Nikon stuff.

Here is their earlier all-round single tube type such as Fuji has which can only produce flat lighting:-

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/ha ... index7.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the later version where the tube is split into two switchable halves which can be separately controlled to provide better modeling:-

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/ha ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The ringlights are now often being replaced by the new Macrolite set ups where small flash guns can be moved anywhere around the attachment ring that is screwed into the filter thread on the front of the lens so if set each side on equal power produce the same flat ringlight type lighting, or just like the switchable segment ringlights, if the power ratio of one is varied to the other they provide better modeling:-

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/revie ... r1c1.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Canon also produces a similar Macrolight to Nikon.

Hope that sorts out the confusion in equipment types?"

Not sure why you want flash for flower photography though unless for night flowering plants, you can use the smaller apertures with the camera on a tripod in the daytime so use available light? Flash is not always needed for insect photography either, though it does allow you to stop their movement without using higher shutter speeds and so sacrificing depth of field by having to use wider apertures. However here is one of my insects taken with available light and a hand held camera, so flash is not always needed even for insects.
52_Newhover3_11.jpg
52_Newhover3_11.jpg (59.97 KiB) Viewed 7656 times
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Jens
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by Jens »

I used natural light up to now too, but I am trying to shoot some cacti with a white background behind them . Flash and a lightbox are one possibility. These setups are used for product Photography a lot .

I´d like to combine more than one photo of the same plant and it´s crucial parts on a light background like it was done with brush and paint in the old botanical paintings.

The flash might also help to gain more depth of field in seedling photography?
Here is my first try of today with the C1R1 and the 40mm Mikro Nikkor
seedlings
Eriosyce esmeraldana FK795 2013 Februar24-1.jpg
Eriosyce esmeraldana FK795 2013 Februar24-1.jpg (92.83 KiB) Viewed 7641 times
Some pictures are overexposed in direct flash
Eriosyce esmeraldana FK795 2013 Februar24-10.jpg
Eriosyce esmeraldana FK795 2013 Februar24-10.jpg (85.07 KiB) Viewed 7641 times
A little better with reflected flash light
Eriosyce esmeraldana FK795 2013 Februar24-14.jpg
Eriosyce esmeraldana FK795 2013 Februar24-14.jpg (87.84 KiB) Viewed 7641 times
DaveW
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by DaveW »

You could try Focus stacking for extra depth of field:-

http://www.cactiguide.com/forum/viewtop ... 33&t=28738" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You could shoot the plants with a solid black background behind them then simply change the background colour to white, or any other colour, by flooding it using the paint bucket tool in post processing?
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Ivan C
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by Ivan C »

Dave. Did you do any "post processing" or "focus stacking" with that 52_Newhover3_11.jpg? I realize the background is not on the same plane but the bee and flower seem fairly clean and crisp.

I want to find a camera/lens that doesn't have only pin point focus. Seems any I've checked out have the focus drop off on the edges. Even though all my seedling pics are on the same plane the edges are always out of focus. I don't have any manual control, but any macro pictures I have checked with camera reviews have only had the centre of the picture sharp. I like the focus stacking but for taking pictures just for reference it's too much work.
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Jens
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by Jens »

I didn´t do any post processing with the photos I took up to now. Mainly because of the extra time that has to be put into it. But maybe I will have to think about it.
But as Ivan also said I ´d like to shoot a good picture in the first place rather than work on it for a long time afterwards.
DaveW
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by DaveW »

No the hover fly is not focus stacked but a simple hand held shot in available light. It is post processed in as much as it is a crop from a larger image and sharpened. If you are shooting in-camera JPEG's the camera will sharpen for you to a set amount. I always shoot RAW though and do my own post processing using Adobe Camera RAW and Photoshop Elements. I do little post processing however other than tweaking exposure, cropping, and sharpening just before saving for the Web as a JPEG. Your D200 will shoot RAW.

http://digital-photography-school.com/raw-vs-jpeg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photographyconcentrate.com/10-re ... oting-raw/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You should have a flat field lens with your Micro Nikkor. Are you confusing the limited depth of field in macro work with a drop off at the edges of the lens? In macro work the DOF can often only be a centimetre or so and at at higher magnifications in millimetres, so anything not exactly on the same level you are focused on will be un-sharp. Many conventional photographers cannot get on with higher magnification macro photography due the restricted DOF you have to work with, unlike the few meters DOF in convectional photography

My first advice for macro photography is switch off autofocus and learn how to screen focus, as the human eye on the focusing screen is still more accurate than any autofocus yet devised.

http://www.tamron-usa.com/lenses/learni ... gstone.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2012/ ... ul-images/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With insects you will get more failures than with flowers because they move. However it's simply a matter of practice since this one is still a non-flash hand held shot using available light.
red-admiral4.jpg
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Jens
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by Jens »

Thanks for the very helpful links and the nice Admiral- snapshot.

I took these with the flash in the dark GH yesterday - but am not really happy how the colors are coming out. Can I tune the color reproduction of the D200 Camera ?
Eriosyce napina ssp. lembckei MA 2013 Februar26.jpg
Eriosyce napina ssp. lembckei MA 2013 Februar26.jpg (82.59 KiB) Viewed 7602 times
I took this pic the year before last year with only natural light
Eriosyce napina ssp. tenebrica JA40 3J 2011 Februar23 025.jpg
Eriosyce napina ssp. tenebrica JA40 3J 2011 Februar23 025.jpg (100.14 KiB) Viewed 7602 times
DaveW
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by DaveW »

You can go into the D200's menu and alter colour saturation, personally I would prefer to play with that in post processing though. This is from Ken Rockwell's link below:-

"Optimize Image

This is where you set the important things, like the saturation I love.

These choices are art. There is no right or wrong if you know what you're doing and know what you want.

I'll tell you what I use. Ignore me and Be Yourself if you prefer a different look.

Preset Choices

Nikon hid the preset scene modes under Optimize Image. These alter the look as if you changed film. They don't affect the apertures and shutter speeds and flash modes as scene modes do on simpler cameras.

These preset modes are:

N Normal

SO Softer

VI Vivid

VI* More Vivid

PO Portrait

BW Black-and-White

You might think I would use Vivid or More Vivid, except that they crank up some of the contrast and sharpness settings and leave them there. I want vivid colors, but leave the contrast and sharpness on Auto. This way as subjects get contrastier I don't have to stop and turn the contrast back down. In VI* you can easily blow out a slightly high-contrast scene."


http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d200/u ... ooting.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You seem to have a very shallow depth of field, what aperture are you using?

You could also increase the sharpening a bit, either in camera or post processing. I have done nothing else but just cropped and used Unsharp Mask in Elements with a setting of 80% - 2 - 5 on your image below.
jens3.jpg
jens3.jpg (41.63 KiB) Viewed 7595 times
I have never altered the saturation on my D200 since it came out of the box, but I do shoot RAW all the time and make any alterations in post processing.
DaveW
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by DaveW »

As an afterthought Jens are you using the same power setting on each flash head? With both power settings the same you will get the flat ring light effect. Macro is only portraiture in miniature and just like human portraiture the idea is to have one flash as the main light and the other as a weaker fill to lighten the shadows but produce better modelling than both on the same power setting.

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/nikon ... mander-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This link is for a ring light with switchable halves where the power ratio can be switched to provide better modelling, but the functions are the same for using a lesser power setting on one of the R1C1's flashes to get better modelling and reveal more texture. You will need to experiment with the ratio's to get the effect you want. Remember in nature there is only one light source the sun, and that usually illuminates objects only from one side, the shadows are filled in at a lower intensity by reflection from other objects. Therefore two light sources each side of an object of equal intensity produces lighting that looks unnatural to us since it does not produce any shadows for the eye to distinguish texture.

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/sigma ... lord-rings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Jens
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by Jens »

DaveW wrote:As an afterthought Jens are you using the same power setting on each flash head? With both power settings the same you will get the flat ring light effect. Macro is only portraiture in miniature and just like human portraiture the idea is to have one flash as the main light and the other as a weaker fill to lighten the shadows but produce better modelling than both on the same power setting.

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/nikon ... mander-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This link is for a ring light with switchable halves where the power ratio can be switched to provide better modelling, but the functions are the same for using a lesser power setting on one of the R1C1's flashes to get better modelling and reveal more texture. You will need to experiment with the ratio's to get the effect you want. Remember in nature there is only one light source the sun, and that usually illuminates objects only from one side, the shadows are filled in at a lower intensity by reflection from other objects. Therefore two light sources each side of an object of equal intensity produces lighting that looks unnatural to us since it does not produce any shadows for the eye to distinguish texture.

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/sigma ... lord-rings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes I did set the sideways flash lights on equal power. I will try with asymetric lighting. Also I will test the color settings in the camera.
The aperture was set on auto and the flash picture above was taken at about F4. :(

Thanks for all the links to learn more about this, Dave !
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SnowFella
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by SnowFella »

F4 would be the reason for the shallow DOF, with flash present I'd go alot higher than that. I tend to take most of my photos at high F numbers, sure that also means long exposures but with the use of a tripod that doesn't really matter much.
DaveW
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Re: Flash for Macro Photography

Post by DaveW »

As Jens is using flash though he should be able to hand hold at the higher f-stops like f16-f22. Though diffraction can be a problem at these stops at higher magnifications for the magnifications Jens is working at and for posting online it will not be visible. With flash and using TTL metering the camera will just up the power of the flash (increase it's duration) to compensate for shooting at the smaller apertures and it's duration will still be much shorter than the highest conventional shutter speed on the camera in order to stop camera shake when hand holding..

Like you I prefer to use the camera on a tripod with a remote release and available light for plants, which unlike insects don't usually move, that is unless wind blown.
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