And now I find this photography corner ♥

Discuss cameras, settings, composition, or anything related to photography - cactus or other subjects.
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salamandra
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And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by salamandra »

Loving this place more, by the minute :D

I love photography!
This is my flickr corner: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dolphin_s/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Am kind of a Nikon maniac and only shoot film - besides my mobile phone, that is entitled to its own blog, like some kind of photo journal: https://salmoblogeye.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My favourite camera is my lovely Nikon F3HP ♥
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DaveW
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by DaveW »

I an a Nikon user too, but digital now, a D200. I used an F2 Photomic for 35 years, but was never into monochrome since I see in colour, being of the opinion that if colour film had been perfected first would anybody have bothered inventing monochrome! :lol:

You will probably be able to get monochrome film way into the future since producing that can be virtually a cottage industry. However colour film, being a more complex manufacturing process will become scarcer in future and colour reversal (slide film) even more so. I changed to digital when Kodak closed their Kodachrome processing plant down in the UK. Not long afterwards they discontinued it's production and closed their US plants down as well.

None of the major camera manufacturers seem to be making any new film cameras having seen the writing on the wall for film, so only quality secondhand film equipment will be available in future I feel. The same with darkroom equipment as Durst has stopped making enlargers due to lack of demand for darkroom equipment.

I am afraid film will be very much a niche market in future and I must admit I never liked darkroom work. Far nicer sitting in the light and warm doing all your post processing on a computer, plus being able to see instantly what a digital camera has taken and take another shot if that was not good enough. I can take a picture of a plant in my greenhouse with digital and in about 10 minutes send it from the UK to the USA where it can be viewed. I could not do that with film since sending a slide or print by post took quite a few days, not counting the time to get it developed.

Even for professionals these days many photo libraries or publications now require images to be delivered digitally over the Web. So even if they were originally taken on film they have to be scanned and then sent digitally. Therefore most professionals are now taking them digitally in the first place.

The question is not just film, but how available in future will the chemicals be in order to develop them, or the silver based printing paper for those who want to make prints? Also 35mm film was originally designed for film cameras and projectors not stills cameras, which is why unlike larger format film it has sprocket holes on both edges. Therefore it was the greater use by the movie industry that helped subsidise it for stills cameras but they too are now going digital, therefore just producing it for stills usage may soon be no longer commercial:-

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entert ... he-way-out" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyway your Nikon F3HP is a collectable camera, so you may get as much as you paid for it if you need to go digital, provided it is still in mint condition for some collector to put in a display cabinet. After 35 years use I got as much for my F2 as I originally paid for it, but it was unscratched and in mint condition still. :)
salamandra
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by salamandra »

Film photography is already a niche and this is a biased conversation if you never liked the darkroom :P

I can get a picture of my plants with my mobile phone and have it in a blog within a minute, so, a camera for that is just waste :P

I would NEVER sell my F3 to get a digital camera. Photography just doesn't feel the same. Way too fast, way too disposable. I have some colour negatives and reverse film in my fridge, but I am a Tri-x girl. And that still has plenty to go around. And loosing that, I could go to Ilford HP5. Not as lovely or easier to push as tri-x, but still a very good film.
I get digital for professional purposes. I know some and it makes all the sense. To me, the way I love photography, it makes no sense. I just don't feel it :)
I learned to shoot in a FM2n and no digital compares to that. And it's still there, still working, still beautiful, no upgrade needed.

And all my cameras where bought 2nd hand. So all the lenses. Just hope people going digital continues to toss away they beautiful analogue equipment ;)
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Ivan C
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by Ivan C »

I'm with you Sandra.

I still have a darkroom. I have Nikon equipment (analog). I have a Hasselblad and I also have a Sinar 4x5. I used Tri-X by the spool and still have some. I loved slide film.
But that is not photography anymore, they tell me. Maybe so, but it is still my passion. Digital is fine and convenient and has its place, but for me, I still like analog. (But I don't do much of now - interests change) And unfortunately it is getting harder to get. But I've had my days, and they can't change that on me.
salamandra
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by salamandra »

Ivan C wrote:I'm with you Sandra.

I still have a darkroom. I have Nikon equipment (analog). I have a Hasselblad and I also have a Sinar 4x5. I used Tri-X by the spool and still have some. I loved slide film.
But that is not photography anymore, they tell me. Maybe so, but it is still my passion. Digital is fine and convenient and has its place, but for me, I still like analog. (But I don't do much of now - interests change) And unfortunately it is getting harder to get. But I've had my days, and they can't change that on me.

I still have some friend that share the love, so, I guess we feed of each other. And order large amounts :D
It really is a passion ♥
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DaveW
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by DaveW »

Film is like doing cuniform writing on a clay tablet these days Sandra, as opposed to using a wordprocessor! :lol:

I did it for years until something better and more convenient came along, but I am not a masochist wishing to make life harder for myself by clinging to the horse and cart when somebody has invented the automobile. :D There are still people coating glass plates with wet collodian even in this day and age to whom your use of film and a Nikon F3 would be considered too revolutionary.

http://www.wetplateday.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.alternativephotography.com/w ... on-process" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you want to go retro, why not completely retro and use wet collodian or make tintypes etc? :lol:

Seriously, we all use what methods we want, but I am afraid the world is moving on from film like it or not. I was told a few years ago by a Kodak shareholder that Kodak would never stop producing Kodachrome, within a year it did.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/3/284120 ... -of-demand" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/ph ... lms-update" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2012/11/ro ... -darkness/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Film may still be around in years to come, but the problem will be economies of scale. The fewer people who use it the dearer it will be to manufacture film and chemicals for those who still want them and the more the price of film and chemicals will escalate due to the reduced demand even more will decide it is now too expensive to use. Therefore the vicious circle will continue until manufacturers (or their shareholders) decide it is time to call it a day. Some say film production will move to the third world where it will be cheaper to manufacture, but the so called third world embraced cheap digital cameras quicker than the West, simply because they could not afford film cameras in the past and now they can afford cameras they want modern technology like smart phones, not Instamatics, so little demand for film exists there.

Never believe any assurances from firms they will continue manufacturer anything, since they always say that until the day they stop so as not to affect sales of the stocks they are trying to clear. Neither does in item still being profitable mean it will not be discontinued, it is always a matter of how profitable. If a firm presently making a product making 5% profit in their factory can use the same space to make another product making 15% profit they will junk the first and make the second instead. If they do not the shareholders will sack the directors!

Kodak was advertising it's ink jet printers on British TV the day before it announced it was stopping their production.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/printin ... -printers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyway as long as it keeps you happy, good luck with the film photography Sandra. :)
salamandra
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by salamandra »

DaveW wrote:Film is like doing cuniform writing on a clay tablet these days Sandra, as opposed to using a wordprocessor! :lol:

I did it for years until something better and more convenient came along, but I am not a masochist wishing to make life harder for myself by clinging to the horse and cart when somebody has invented the automobile. :D There are still people coating glass plates with wet collodian even in this day and age to whom your use of film and a Nikon F3 would be considered too revolutionary.

http://www.wetplateday.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.alternativephotography.com/w ... on-process" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you want to go retro, why not completely retro and use wet collodian or make tintypes etc? :lol:

Seriously, we all use what methods we want, but I am afraid the world is moving on from film like it or not. I was told a few years ago by a Kodak shareholder that Kodak would never stop producing Kodachrome, within a year it did.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/3/284120 ... -of-demand" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/ph ... lms-update" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2012/11/ro ... -darkness/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Film may still be around in years to come, but the problem will be economies of scale. The fewer people who use it the dearer it will be to manufacture film and chemicals for those who still want them and the more the price of film and chemicals will escalate due to the reduced demand even more will decide it is now too expensive to use. Therefore the vicious circle will continue until manufacturers (or their shareholders) decide it is time to call it a day. Some say film production will move to the third world where it will be cheaper to manufacture, but the so called third world embraced cheap digital cameras quicker than the West, simply because they could not afford film cameras in the past and now they can afford cameras they want modern technology like smart phones, not Instamatics, so little demand for film exists there.

Never believe any assurances from firms they will continue manufacturer anything, since they always say that until the day they stop so as not to affect sales of the stocks they are trying to clear. Neither does in item still being profitable mean it will not be discontinued, it is always a matter of how profitable. If a firm presently making a product making 5% profit in their factory can use the same space to make another product making 15% profit they will junk the first and make the second instead. If they do not the shareholders will sack the directors!

Kodak was advertising it's ink jet printers on British TV the day before it announced it was stopping their production.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/printin ... -printers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyway as long as it keeps you happy, good luck with the film photography Sandra. :)

I always wonder why digi people try so hard or feel like its their duty to shine a light into those retrogrades film photography lovers. And even go as far as to think that we ignore all that is technology out there, like that would be the only reason they can think about to be insane enough to keep doing it the old way.
Thank you for all the input and info. I assure you I'm very tech savy and even am the one giving advice on digi equipment to friends that want to buy it. And I don't even try to tell them how wrong they are. Because I rely on the fact that they know what they want and what they like.

As you said, it's only about what makes you happy.
Not looking for luck, though. Its passion and love.

But good luck with all your next top notch digi equipment ;)
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majcka
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by majcka »

Well i feel like tell sometnihg about this. I have no objections against eather. I had an old fashion camera (I think it is still somewhere in my mothers attic). Whei it got broken I had no other chance to buy new - digital one. Well it was another chance but there were no money to do it then. Now I have a digital camera. It is very easy to manage. It is very small to put anywhere. I don't need film for it (it has a large memory card). The only thing I miss with it is manual adjustment of focus.

So. That would be it. But I admire all you lovers of old fashion way of photography.
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DaveW
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by DaveW »

Only pulling your leg Sandra and Ivan, we all take what we want, but it is expected that film and digital photographers should always champion their own medium and decry the other, just like cats and dogs always fight. :lol: However I cannot really see film having more than a tiny niche following far in the future. As I said previously the question is will you ever become too small a minority for industry to cater for? You can coat plates with wet collodian yourself, but you cannot make roll film except on a commercial scale. Not only my opinion either:-

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/artattack ... y_dead.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.nowtoronto.com/art/story.cfm?content=162859" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There always will be enthusiasts for both film and digital photography, but it is a fact that every year those favouring film decline as many of the oldies brought up on film die and those favouring digital increase, therefore you don't have to be Einstein to work out which set will eventually win!

I used to believe nothing could beat a good slide projected on a screen until I saw digital projection and to me it beats traditional slides hands down for brightness and clarity. Digital projection and computer screen use for cactus sites and my cactus club is what I want photography for, even attaching to emails for friends. I have no interest in making prints or hanging them on the wall and certainly not monochrome, though that can even be done easier using digital.

I hear a lot of previous film photographers saying they are going to digitise all their slides or negatives, but few ever get around to it once they start digital. Therefore they all get left in the back of the wardrobe once the darkroom equipment has been thrown out, and dumped in the bin when they die since their relations cannot view them on their computer or TV screen.

Anyway how did you post those monochrome images on Flickr without digitising them, therefore they are no longer film images but digital ones simply using film as a starting point, just as if you had photographed the original scene with a digital camera in the first place? :)
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Ivan C
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by Ivan C »

I totally agree with what you are saying Dave (Except maybe for the monochrome part). To me it's not a matter of winning out. I too have a digital and use it on a constant basis. Analog is just something that I just enjoy and appreciate and I'm old enough to have been a part of it. You know I even prefer vinyl to mp3. But that is another story... heheh
salamandra
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by salamandra »

And vinyl was a niche too, sentenced to death, they said. I love them too. And now everyone loves them and buys turntables and vinyl sales are going up.
Oh, printed books are the next thing to die.
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by DaveW »

Vinyl and film Hasselblad's Ivan, you mean you have not upgraded to a digital Hasselblad?

http://www.zazdas.com/department/pc/vie ... category=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and both of you not made bowls out of the vinyl. :lol:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... -into-bowl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by Harriet »

So am I weird to prefer digital cameras and vinyl sound?

My preference for digital photography stems from my impatience while waiting for film to develop, and the simple ability to take multiple shots "just in case". But then, I have a Nikon D7000 and I believe it is as much fun and has the ability to capture much of the same "feeling" as film shots do.
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Daniel
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by Daniel »

I'm a fan of digital bit I do like film, developing film is a more time consuming process though and I guess that's why most people use digital, because in this age no one ever has any time :( . I have a Polaroid camera which I use sometimes as well, its almost my favorite gadget as well! (just after my x-box! :lol: )
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DaveW
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Re: And now I find this photography corner ♥

Post by DaveW »

Some claim the subject is more important than the method used to reproduce it, the camera just being a means of faithfully recording what is in front of it, the process and equipment itself being irrelevant as long as it does the job required, some call those the real photographers. Others are more interested in equipment, photo processing or darkroom work and have often been dubbed "technicians" since the subject the camera took is only the starting point for their manipulations. Ansel Adams was said to have been more of a darkroom worker than a straight photographer since most of his prints were heavily manipulated in the darkroom, even using things like bleaches etc to get the unusual monochromatic results he wanted. People have tried printing his negatives since and never been able to obtain similar results, which if they had been straight prints from his negatives they would have.

A friend of mine used to tell a story about a chap who was in his camera club. They reckoned he only had one decent negative but by selective cropping and darkroom effects he managed to make a different monochrome print of it each year that consistently won the competition. He was therefore a darkroom technician rather than a photographer, the negative merely being the starting point for his manipulations and virtually any reasonable negative would have done. He was more in love with the darkroom process than fidelity to the subject, which in his case was almost irrelevant. Of course monochrome cannot ever be faithful to a subject since it lacks colour, therefore it is taken for effect rather than subject fidelity.

I suppose most of us come somewhere between the two, but even so we can still fall into two camps where one believes in utmost fidelity to the subject as far as photographically possible, whereas others believe the image the camera took is only the starting point for their interpretation of the scene. With natural history photography however fidelity to the subject is considered paramount and darkroom or photo processing creativity usually frowned upon, in fact usually prohibited in natural history competition rules.
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