very frustrated with this website!

[cactusgrower313]

i made this to gain knowledge! not to be ignored, I posted many pictures of identification and cold hardy cacti and collection, I get nothing in return. while I do help others on here a lot. very annoyed and dissatisfied. I feel like many on here don't care for the newcomer and just love to boast about their collection. good bye.

[KittieKAT]

Why would u feel that way? It's off season most people aren't as chatty in the cold months, but most people enjoy looking at people's collections and many don't comment on the posts with the pictures, but many ask and need help with problems and whatnot they have with their plant's and us having the information that allows us to help them with those problems is exactly why this site is here as well as being a place to share photos of our collections and whatever else is rattling around in our heads and getting help and knowledge that we need and seek in return. I'm sure everyone appreciates your posts and your pictures and your knowledge that you share. You just gatta believe that you are doing great things not wait for the praise of doing so, no matter how good it feels when people do it, u just gatta believe that they are thankful and pleased with what u have to offer everyone

[cactusgrower313]

thank you kittiekat! much needed that its just I need help identifying some species and I barely get a reply it just makes me feel like the new kid compared to others. yes I see where your coming from and you are right. your such a kind person thank you for your input. much appreciated

[DaveW]

The best idea is not to post too many pictures at once for identification, say only two or three at a time since mass postings for identification can be a bit of a turn off for many viewing them in order to name all at once, so they flip onto the next post. If I posted all my collection at once there would be well over a thousand to identify and all would pass by that post very quickly!

Also it is often difficult to identify some plants out of flower, therefore pictures of the plants in flower are always helpful. Unfortunately it can also be difficult to identify some from photographs unless they show all the diagnostic features. Some plants are also hard to identify when small and they have not yet developed their adult characteristics.

Many collectors soon specialise so are not always conversant with all genera or species. I will seldom comment on Cerei or Opuntia's because in the UK most of do not bother growing many of them since they get too large for our greenhouses, or if of the tropical kind require too much heat.

We all started from scratch as beginners, but there was no Internet to identify plants in the early days (1960's in my case) so we all bought good descriptive books on the subject. As a collector you still need to acquire the skill to identify plants from botanical descriptions even in this day and age and not just rely on photographs, since it often comes down to just counting spines in order to be sure of the identification.

Also if a branch of a local cactus society was near we joined that so more advanced members could help identify the actual plant. There is still no real substitute for people actually viewing the plant first hand to suggest it's identity. Nowadays you can search the Internet to identify plants, admitted it helps if you know the genus etc, but even having grown them for 53 years plus knowing most of the genera it will sometimes take me a couple of years to be certain I have identified a mystery plant correctly, particularly out of flower.

It's an interesting hobby, but can be frustrating at times as there are supposedly over 2000 species of cacti alone to identify, not counting the so called Other Succulents and nobody carries all those identifications in their heads. Just keep feeding in the pictures in small batches and they will probably get identified.

[KittieKAT]

And just to add to davew's post: alot of cacti branch off into different categories or sub categories and change group names and all that jazz like when u see someone say (n. warsii and others say P. Warsii) same plant different name cause they keep switching it around etc...etc..

To be completely honest i had and have a bunch of plants and i couldn't tell u what 80% of them are called lol! So I'm not the best person to identify plants unless u want the wrong id most of the time anyways hahaha! But even if i don't kno i always enjoy seeing other people's plants even thoe i don't kno what most of them are and when they do finally get an Id. If i like it then i add it to the never-ending list of plants that I'll porb never own or have room to have lol! So don't think just cause people lurk around in the shadows looking t yr picture's that they aren't enjoying them cause they are still enjoying them and are prob waiting for someone to kno what they are so they can identify one of the same plants or to own one someday! We all appreciate your help and your posts but (thoe i hate to admit it) we aren't all plant identification geniuses lo, i kno its hard to believe but even the simplest looking cacti can confuse the most abid collector sometimes! So don't leave enjoy the site and sharing your plants and giving help and gaining yr own insight wait till summer and spring kick in then you'll see the site spring back to life!

[cactusgrower313]

thank you guys it all makes sense no. much appreciated davew I will start posting a few pictures at a time. kittiekat yea Identifying cacti are pretty hard. much love to you guys

[Saxicola]

It is worth adding that this forum has changed a fair bit over the last few years since I joined. While we still have some very good experts here, we don't have as many as when I joined. I don't think ANY of the mods listed for each forum are here any more, and the Admin of the site, Daiv, hasn't posted anything of relevance in at least a year. He used to be just about the most active person on the forum!

That's not to say the current version of the forum is bad, only that a lot of the top identifiers aren't here anymore.

[cactusgrower313]

I agree saxicola! It has changed maybe they died? (God forbid)

[DaveW]

I think the hobby has lost popularity around the world Saxicola. Maybe CITES helped it's decline? The British society when I joined in the 1960's had 4000+ members, now I believe it is just over 2000. Youngsters now have far more hobbies and entertainments open to them instead of plants than they did years ago. Our local branch in Nottingham once had over 100 members, now we have around 20, plus we old ones keep dying off and not being replaced by youngsters anymore. Also for us in colder climes the rapid increase in the cost of greenhouse heating lost a lot of members. Cheaper oil and gas are only a very recent phenomenon.

Lets hope people discovering the free online journals and not having to pay what are now becoming rather expensive membership fees to receive a printed journal will reawaken interest again. My overseas American CSSA Journal subscription for 2015 cost me $70 (£46.12p) for which as an overseas member I just get 6 issues of the journal. An overseas member of the British BCSS would pay £20 ($40) for 4 journals. Unfortunately International Postage rates and printing costs are now killing printed journals and one wonders how traditional societies will survive in the face of subscription free journals on the web? The German Society seems to be one of the most thriving still.

Strange to say the British Cactus & Succulent Society (BCSS) Forum, being open to non BCSS members now has more members than the BCSS society itself does! Perhaps that indicates the way our societies will have to go, free web sites and free online journals and maybe only branches or affiliates charging an entrance fee for those attending face to face meetings to pay for hire of the venue plus speakers travelling expenses. Though I understand even online video lectures to save speakers having to travel at all and thus save travelling costs, plus in addition making them available to people worldwide are now being considered. Don't know how that will pan out though since our British cactus society speakers usually only charge travelling expenses not a lecture fee, so they would then be in competition with those who presently demand a fee for their talks.

I was told when I joined this site that Hob had packed up cacti and taken to caravanning? I also gather few want to take on the task of being a Moderator.

[Saxicola]

CSSA journal is expensive even in the US. It is $50 for US residents... and I live one mile from where the editor lives and I think maybe an hour or so from where it is printed. I think it only comes out 4 times per year. I definitely isn't monthly. I didn't subscribe this year because I just didn't find enough interesting articles to justify it. I think the CSSA should go to online only and charge $20-25 per year. Without all the printing and shipping costs they'd make as much if not more money and I think more people would join. It is a non profit society anyway, they should only be looking to pay the bills.

We are are getting renewed interest in C&S over here, especially in California. I think the reason is that people are finally realizing we don't have enough water here to sustain the population with their current lifestyle. So drought tolerant plants (whether C&S or Mediterranean climate plants) are big business. In fact the state is paying people $2-3 per square foot to tear out their lawns and replace them with drought tolerant species (I'm doing that currently in my own yard).

That being said, I do think you are correct that the overall interest in exotic plants has declined somewhat. My friend, who is a curator at a major botanical garden in Thailand, used to have researchers and serious collectors coming to the garden all the time. When I went back there last year, after several years away, he said hardly anyone comes anymore. I'm referring to specialists, not the general public and tourists. They are having more regular visitors than ever.

Moderators come and go, but I think Daiv the administrator disappearing had the biggest effect and caused others to drift away. Maybe he's losing interest given that he lives in Minnesota, one of the toughest climates to maintain a collection in.

[sundanz]

I sure hope it picks up again soon! The forum has become rather flat lately!

[cactusgrower313]

Honestly why rely on them? Why can't new people take their "positions".?

[KittieKAT]

See this is exactly the reason i run my program so (like davew said, lol) when older collectors eventually go to their last resting place in cacti heaven, the younger generation can take its place. But theirs always gonna be a lack in interest in the younger generation cause most of them don't wanna learn about plants or how to take care of plants and garden and mixes ..etc...etc.. nowadays people go to Lowe's buy a cactus and it dies in a few days cause they don't wanna learn how to take care of it properly, and then they find it not worth wasting money on cause they assume they are just gonna die anyways in the end. Which they wouldn't if they had basic knowledge on caring for the plants. I was honestly surprised that alot more children wanted to join my growing/learning program especially in MA where it's very rare to find people who have cacti/succulents/mesembs...etc...etc.. i think our local cacti and succulent society only has about 15-20 members and most of them are further away then where i live in Salem. I've always loved plants loved growing unusual things and teaching people about how to grow them and listening and learning about them from other growers but their are such little growers and collectors close to me, that most of my learning is that here and books and some books as you know are very very expensive since they are usually outta print. This site has dwindled from when i first started, but i can only hope it will pick up again and not end up like lithopfourms.com where there site literally has. Me and teo other active members on site. The last i even heard of the moderators is when davi thanked me for posting in the cacti of the month thread for November, hob i used to see around sometimes, but haven't in months.
Hopefully i can help the younger generation and peek their interests and keep their interests growing, but its a very hard task when most plants are hard to come by way of donation (it was better a few years ago) or by way of my income that os slowly draining away. But it makes me happy to see kids light up looking at the plants they grew and learn life lessons as well as gardening as they grow i can only hope more of the younger generation will have interest one day and the older growers will want to teach and leave their legacy and knowledge down to the children who are interested instead of letting it slowly disappear. I learned a long time ago that with kids if u let them choose what they wanna learn about and grow they wanna learn more in general that's why I'm still stuck on the whole lithops thing as of recent, cause they find them very fun, interesting and they are intrigued about everything about them, which is great! Except that they are hard to grow, slower to grow and are very hard to keep alive without proper knowledge and where i live, they are very hard to attain as plants. Hopefully in the future we will have older kids and younger kids enjoying and loving the same things we older people presently do and continue the legacy of cacti/succulent growing. I would feel my life would be incomplete if i didn't have these kids too teach. I can only hope many of them continue their fascination when they get older so we will have a whole new generation of DaveW's and K.W's and Aiko's and Iann's and CandDplants ...etc...etc... even if its only one species per child i would feel i could die in peace knowing they will teach others in the community and continue to learn and grow these wonderful plants!

[KittieKAT]

And i think if others want to be mods and could do the job effectively the old ones should give them the jobs and retire completely so others can be the voice instead of the silent voices of the not-so-active .

[DaveW]

I think Daiv would be glad to receive offers to be Mods. I was even asked if I was interested in taking on one of the Forums only a few weeks after I joined. I declined since I spent quite a few years as a Moderator on an American Nikon photographic Forum and did not want to get involved again.

Regarding your remark Saxicola on the American Society:-

"It is a non profit society anyway, they should only be looking to pay the bills."

Somebodies making a good profit from it you may be surprised to hear Saxicola, but what annoys me is unlike the British Society the accounts are never published in the American Journal so the subscribers can see who! Evidently your American legal system allows that to happen, since our British society has to publish the accounts yearly for it's members to see and all the local branches have to show their members a copy of their accounts at their AGM every year.

I first understood the American Societies finances were unlike the British one, whose officials are all unpaid volunteers therefore only get expenses such as travelling, phone and postal expenses for doing their jobs, when somebody I knew that emigrated from the UK was appointed one of the CSSJA officials in the past. They told me they were amazed just how large the remuneration was they and all the other officials got for doing their jobs that would have been unpaid in the BCSS. You never see it advertised in the CSSJA for the benefit of the membership, but this advert elsewhere in Desert Song for their Journal editor stating the current contract was for $25,000 (£16,493) per year in 2011 is an eye opener, plus all the other officials get well paid too I am led to believe:-

http://desertsong.com/CSSA_Editor.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However you really have to ask if they are advertising for an editor why the advert does not first appear in the societies journal concerned stating how much the editor will be paid, but in another more obscure publication, since what better pool of qualified people are there than among the CSSJA readership?

Of course your American system is different to the British one since we have one main society having a local branch system, whereas the American one is a journal producing organisation with independent affiliated local cactus clubs. How much cheaper could the American Society subscriptions be though if it simply used unpaid volunteers for editor and other officials as many of the European societies do?