Neoraimonida in pots?

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stefan m.
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Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by stefan m. »

Im honestly curious about this plant. Had 7 total and all croaked for reasons,
But how well does it grow, potted and indoors, in non ideal conditions?
Does it branch, flower? How tall does it get?
Whats the biggest one you fellow growers got anyways?
Is it from wholesale, seedgrown, or a specialist nursery?
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stefan m.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by stefan m. »

One of the most common plants i see... and yet no one is willing to talk about it...
Is shameful to have a plant like that these days?
DaveW
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by DaveW »

Many of the tall growing Cerei do not do that well in small pots, they really just exist and grow slowly, preferably they need to be bedded in. However some are decorative as small plants, but I don't think Neoraimondia's are that desirable as small plants. It depends what you find interesting. It is a plant Graham Charles says is "best left in habitat" in his Peruvian talks. It will have to be really large to flower, but then it does get interesting as the flowering areoles continue to develop every year like miniature cephaliums. See picture 13-5833 in the link below.

http://www.cactusinhabitat.org/index.ph ... id=85&l=en

http://www.wellgrowhorti.com/Page/Comme ... mondia.htm
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stefan m.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by stefan m. »

I actually knew about the weird areoles. I think this is proably the only case of cactus mimicking euphorbia traits- while looking up plants, ive noticed that euphoriba horrida in particular has spines that are actually miniature branches and often end up in flower. Im somewhat certain thats a way for the neoraimondia to "recycle " its areoles , since most plants are limited to one flower/branch per areole if i recall. So it must be a adaptation for some plants to compensate for slow growing speed and limited growing time between flowerings.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by esp_imaging »

I bought Neoraimondia "by accident", thinking it was at least a little cold hardy, based on the details herehttps://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/126782/
In practise, I found it extremely cold sensitive - vastly more than I'd expect with a plant which Dave's Garden says is OK to -6.6deg C.
I had 2, which both died over winter, for no reason as far as I could tell, except presumably that they didn't like prolonged temps below 10deg C.
Checking out the habitat, it seems to come from tropical Boliva etc, so temps will always be high there. So in Europe. maybe it's best as a houseplant for a permanently warm room, unless you have a permanently warm greenhouse.
The short flowering stems are effectively a modified cephalium - instead of developing new growth from the main growing point purely for flowering, as (e.g.) Melocactus does, it develops this from the lateral areoles.
FWIW, Neoraimondia can be quite fast growing.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by DaveW »

I think you mean Neoraimondia come from Peru ESP?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoraimondia

See Mauseth's article on Cephalia Stefan. Neoraimondia is further down the link:-

http://www.sbs.utexas.edu/mauseth/resea ... phalia.htm

Mauseth also says about Neoraimondia's:-

"The biology of Neoraimondia is very unusual and has many facets in need of study, but I do not know of any large plants in cultivation in the United States. These plants need a lot of room and must be cultivated with no risk of frost."
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stefan m.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by stefan m. »

those temps are more of a guideline...
I dont rely on them too heavily and use other sources to confirm or deny.
And it seems i wasnt the only one having trouble with it.
But still, would like info from somebody who managed to turn this plant into a looker.
I know mirtillocactus, trichocereus, cereus, polaskia and stetsonia are often the most common branchers, but i was looking for info on the more obscure ones.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by stefan m. »

Dave W might have read that article from before. But while cephalia are not branches in a traditional sense, if you look up http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/EUPHOR ... ng_810.jpg -spines, youll notice that up close they resemble twigs(like a branch protruding out of the fake areole). I was comparing the two since both are lateral plant structures, who exhibit a secondary growth pattern from the main plant.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by esp_imaging »

DaveW wrote:I think you mean Neoraimondia come from Peru ESP?
As far as I can tell, N. herzogiana is Bolivian (maybe not exclusively). N. arequipensis is Peruvian (again, maybe not excluisvely).

https://www.cactusexpert.org/cultivatio ... ondia.html

If you insist that N. herzogiana is actually Neocardensia, then you are correct, although this is the species most found for sale.
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7george
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by 7george »

I woudn't keep Neoraimondia in a pot. Maybe just seedlings and young plants until be able to move these pots and find a new host for them.

Image
It branches at quite decent size.

Image
Flowers appear at tree-size plants.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
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stefan m.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by stefan m. »

But that only works if you could plant it outside. Here, it's just too cold and wet
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by DaveW »

"But that only works if you could plant it outside. Here, it's just too cold and wet"

That's why people who can't bed them outside Stefan don't usually bother growing them. As Graham Charles said "best left in habitat", unless you are able to grow them in a more naturalistic manner because you are never going to get them to flower or probably branch in a small pot on a balcony or in a small greenhouse. It's far better to use the space we have available for something we can grow to maturity and flower in our lifetimes unless the plant as a seedling is a particularly decorative cereus = Cephalocereus senilis, Espostoa's, Oreocereus etc. The same applies to rampant growing Opuntia's if you have to grow them indoors, or in a greenhouse, since they take up too much room.

Yes sorry ESP, N. herzogiana is endemic to Bolivia, the rest are Peruvian I believe. As you say N. herzogiana used to be placed in Neocardenasia which is why the previous reference I used did not pick it up.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/152368/0
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stefan m.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by stefan m. »

And yet dutch nurseries are literally spamming this plant in 7/10 mini cactus mixes..., and some what in medium cactus mixes.. And its not even decorative or very fast growing in pots either....
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by ElieEstephane »

It doesn't have to be decorative to put in arrangements. I've seen too many ugly plants in arrangements, notably but not exclusively monstrose and cristate plants. They just push watever plants they can grow easily and the general masses will buy what's available.
Back to the topic, growing any fast growing columnar in a pot is an unrealistic expectation. Either it's gonna be dwarfed, or you'll have to dump it or sell it as i gets bigger. I have some fairly small opuntias in pots for decoration around the house and garden and moving them around is very hard labor. I eventually winched them to the roof where i'm starting a garden.
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Re: Neoraimonida in pots?

Post by DaveW »

Ask yourself why many of the cacti sold in stores are tall growing cerei? It's because they are quick to produce a commercial sized plant and are intended for the general public who don't know really what they are buying, or even expect to flower them because somebody has probably told them cacti only flower once every hundred years or so, or one of the other myths. Therefore most will finish in the bin in a few months time when they get tired of them. Many pot plants are sold as the commercial equivalent of cut flowers, just bought on a whim by the public and dumped in the bin when they finish flowering and get tired of them, or if not grown in the wrong conditions in room interiors and usually in the case of cacti etiolating as interior decorators plants. I believe the Dutch growers produce thousands of Mammillaria zielmanniana for one of their holidays. If most of those plants survived there would be no sales the next year, they are usually just binned like cut flowers after flowering.

If all the plants the commercial trade produced survived we would be knee deep in cacti and they would not have any repeat orders. They rely on most people killing them off and keep buying new ones. Therefore it really does not matter how inappropriate the genus or species may be for their conditions, or their climate as they are just impulse buys.

With collectors room is eventually a problem and most mature collections will not have a lot of the commoner large rampant growing or tall plants unless they can grow them outside. Larger commoner species eventually having been thrown out to make space for the smaller choicer rarities. Particularly if they have to spend money heating a greenhouse, or in smaller UK gardens that are limited as to greenhouse size. Ask yourself Stefan when you get to around 1000 plants in your collection will you still be wanting to grow Neoraimondia's? There are a number collectors in our local branch with more than 500 plants and one or two of us with over 1000 plants.

I found a picture of my staging's here:-

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39996&p=339717#p339717

If you ask many nurserymen they will tell you they could not keep going just producing collectors plants, it is the general faster growing usually common stuff they supply to the stores that pays the bills.
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