"Leaning" Mammillaria

Discuss repotting, soil, lighting, fertilizing, watering, etc. in this category.
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Shane
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"Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by Shane »

I have had a small mammillaria rhondantha for a few months. About a month ago I had to move it somewhere it had less sunlight, and within a week it developed this odd tilt. When I looked closer, the side that was facing brighter light had grown faster than the dark side. I tried turning it the other way, but it stayed exactly the same. Can I fix this? And in terms of light, is it better to be in a room that gets brighter or longer light?
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Pompom
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by Pompom »

Exactly same thing is happening to my mammillaria karwinskiana. It's leaning towards growing light (I have to grow it inside during winter), longer side is slightly lighter than the other. It was a month ago or so when I detected that, and turned it. It hasn't recovered yet.
I too want to know if this is correctable.
Mine isn't as "badly" tilted as yours, but somewhat tilted anyways.
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stefan m.
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by stefan m. »

In the wild, mammilarias are often clumped, and almost never seen growing upward, sometimes even sprawling. This is often the case with cacti like copiapoa, ferocacti, others.... they lean towards the sun in order(need confirm on this) to minimize surface are facing it, so they loose less water.
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Shane
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by Shane »

In the wild, mammilarias are often clumped, and almost never seen growing upward, sometimes even sprawling. This is often the case with cacti like copiapoa, ferocacti, others.... they lean towards the sun in order(need confirm on this) to minimize surface are facing it, so they loose less water.
Good to know that, I didn't know that
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7george
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by 7george »

Just columnar cacti go more or less straight, others lean one side. Not a problem.
Turn it a bit around next season or at re-poting. Sometimes bright surface behind helps.

Image
And better keep those outdoors and don't let them grow in winter.
Take care!
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
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DaveW
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by DaveW »

Plants bend towards the light since the shady side grows quicker than the sunny side. See:-

https://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/tulip ... rowth.html

Though as Stefan points out, depending on the stiffness of the stem when it gets past a certain length to diameter ratio, the weight of the upper part alone will cause it to bend over and become procumbent.

https://biology.stackexchange.com/quest ... directions

However do not confuse this with the small group of cacti like the Parodia's that used to be called Notocactus or Eriocactus, such as leninghausii, claviceps and warasii that grow upright but the crown angles towards the light, something that is a perfectly normal characteristic of those species.

Click on picture to enlarge:-

https://arizonacactussales.com/shop/not ... inghausii/

Parodia (Eriocactus - Notocactus) warasii is also unusual in that it tends to produce offsets high up the plant nearer to the crown and seldom actually from the base, something that is perfectly normal for this species, but often a sign of crown damage in most cacti. So if your warasii starts to do it don't worry about, it's a characteristic of the species.

https://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/341987/
Atozbotanicals
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by Atozbotanicals »

I had this happen with my Mammillaria rhodantha pringlei, and after about a week after I turned it, it was growing straight again. Maybe just leave it turned for longer, it should come around soon enough.
17 year old Cactus enthusiast specializing in hard growing North American species.
DaveW
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by DaveW »

It will probably straighten given time if left in that direction, particularly if it is not the active growing season since cacti are slow growers and leaning is caused usually by light actually retarding growth, with the darker side of the plant growing more than the side in brighter light.

See:-

https://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/tulip ... rowth.html

In normally bright conditions repeatedly turning plants to keep them perfectly symmetrical can even inhibit flowering, since in nature a plant gets used to light from one side because nobody turns them in habitat. In very hot climates turning a plant will often cause it to burn on what was the normal shady side unused to that light intensity.

Also it is natural for some genera and species like the Notocactus or Parodia's that used to be placed in a genus called Eriocactus to grow up straight but have their crown angled towards the light, as in Notocactus leninghausii, magnificus, warasii, schumannianus, claviceps and nigrispinus, therefore should not be normally turned if basically growing straight.

Note the inclined crown in Parodia (Notocactus - Eriocactus) claviceps in the link below, which is perfectly normal growth.

http://www.cactusinhabitat.org/index.php?p=specie&id=92

Also in N. leninghausii

http://www.kakteensammlung-holzheu.de/e ... ausii.html

Another characteristic that upsets some people with Notocactus warasii is it often tends to produce offsets high up the stems, often near the crown rather than around the base, however that is one of the characteristics of that species although uncommon in most cacti, therefore nothing to get alarmed about since it is not abnormal growth.

Scroll down to see the last pictures in this link.

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/tags/n ... teresting/
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Shane
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by Shane »

Thanks to everyone who responded. I wanted to give an update:

At the time, I eventually (correctly) concluded that in addition to leaning, it was becoming etoliated. I was just learning about the concept of etoliation back then. I moved it to a sunnier room and possibly cut back on watering, but I don't remember for sure. Nowadays it's not "leaning" much anymore. It's outside now where it has as much light as it wants and has been growing nicely. Here's what it looks like these days
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DaveW
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by DaveW »

Most cacti lean towards the light if the light is not intense enough, or only from one direction. However in the very high light intensity in Chile some Copiapoa's in habitat have ev0lved to lean towards the light at a certain angle. It is claimed they orientate their woolly protected crown directly towards the sun as a "sunshade" and that inclination keeps most of the plant in shade and therefore reduces water loss. I have not noticed Copiapoa's do that in cultivation though.

http://www.society.bcss.org.uk/index.ph ... -2018.html
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Shane
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by Shane »

DaveW wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:56 am Most cacti lean towards the light if the light is not intense enough, or only from one direction. However in the very high light intensity in Chile some Copiapoa's in habitat have ev0lved to lean towards the light at a certain angle. It is claimed they orientate their woolly protected crown directly towards the sun as a "sunshade" and that inclination keeps most of the plant in shade and therefore reduces water loss. I have not noticed Copiapoa's do that in cultivation though.

http://www.society.bcss.org.uk/index.ph ... -2018.html
I think "not intense enough, or only from one direction" is a good description of the light it was getting then (well maybe with 'and' instead of 'or'). I think developing a noticable lean so quickly (in a week) was a sign something was wrong. In contrast, I leveled the table where I keep my cacti a week or two ago and they're just now adjusting (they'd leaned to their tops were level because the table was tilted)

The leaning Copiapoa remind me of the compass barrels (F. wislizeni) I saw in Arizona. I remember wondering why they did that. I saw a number of them that had leaned too far, tipped over and died. The lean didn't make a lot of sense then, but reducing their exposure to the Sonoran sun would make sense
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7george
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by 7george »

At the time, I eventually (correctly) concluded that in addition to leaning, it was becoming etoliated.
Mammillaria rhodantha is rather short-cylindrical cactus, up to 40 cm high, there's nothing wrong with your plant. Strong spines show that light is just fine.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
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Shane
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by Shane »

7george wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:07 am
At the time, I eventually (correctly) concluded that in addition to leaning, it was becoming etoliated.
Mammillaria rhodantha is rather short-cylindrical cactus, up to 40 cm high, there's nothing wrong with your plant. Strong spines show that light is just fine.
I meant at the time. It's definitely growing healthy growth now, for sure. For context, the window it was next to got no direct sunlight and maybe four hours of indirect light while I was still watering it normally. I don't think it necessarily grew new etoliated growth (the growth stopped at that point), just the existing growth was starting to stretch towards the light
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Shane
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by Shane »

Another point of context, this thread is almost two years old. I posted again to let everyone know the (good) outcome. I like to bring closure to things when I can

The full story is actually that I was never able to get it somewhere with quite enough light so I stopped watering it and kept it dormant for about a year. This winter I moved to LA and put it outside and it's been pretty happy
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DaveW
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Re: "Leaning" Mammillaria

Post by DaveW »

As you say Shane the "Compass Barrels" lean towards the sun for the same reason in high light intensities as the Copiapoa's and at mid day don't usually throw a shadow since the plant is so parallel aligned with the light direction it keeps most of the body except the usually woolly protected crown in shade. That is obviously different to plants that lean towards the light in dimmer light conditions, or if the light is only from one side like a window.

However it's the same bending mechanism of light retarding growth on the lit side, but accelerating it on the dark side being adapted for two different sets of conditions, one not enough sun and the other too much.

https://journeynorth.org/tm/tulips/AuxinsGrowth.html

https://hikearizona.com/dexcoder.php?PID=1690&ZTN=2425
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