Best location for my collection

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ElieEstephane
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Best location for my collection

Post by ElieEstephane »

Hello everyone.
This year i have drastically extended my cacti and succulents collection and im trying to determine the best location to keep it. Any help would be appreciated.
Keeping in mind they they all are young cacti, here are my options.
Option 1:
Coastal mediterranean weather, full sun, day temperature: 30-33 degrees celsius (86-92 F), nighttime 20-22 C (68-72 F), frequent watering. 0 chance of rain.
However the sun is somewhat harsh and burning growth points on some of the young cacti that are not too densly spined.

Option 2: summer house, mountain location, full sun, 25-30 C (77-86 F), nighttime 12-18 C (54-65 F). Somewhat foggy from 5 to 9 pm. May rain mildly a couple of times per month.
I imagine this location would be better since the sun is not as harsh and would maybe encourage better growth since some cacti may hibernate at high temperatures. But im worried about low(ish) night time temperatures and the humid fog.

Many thanks in advance.
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a) :mrgreen:
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by Steve Johnson »

elieestephane wrote:Hello everyone.
This year i have drastically extended my cacti and succulents collection and im trying to determine the best location to keep it. Any help would be appreciated.
Keeping in mind they they all are young cacti, here are my options.
Option 1:
Coastal mediterranean weather, full sun, day temperature: 30-33 degrees celsius (86-92 F), nighttime 20-22 C (68-72 F), frequent watering. 0 chance of rain.
However the sun is somewhat harsh and burning growth points on some of the young cacti that are not too densly spined.

Option 2: summer house, mountain location, full sun, 25-30 C (77-86 F), nighttime 12-18 C (54-65 F). Somewhat foggy from 5 to 9 pm. May rain mildly a couple of times per month.
I imagine this location would be better since the sun is not as harsh and would maybe encourage better growth since some cacti may hibernate at high temperatures. But im worried about low(ish) night time temperatures and the humid fog.

Many thanks in advance.
Both options are good, although before I discuss them, I'll give you some insight into summer dormancy. The problem really isn't extreme heat during the day, but relatively extreme heat at night that keeps desert cacti from being able to open their stomata for transpiration. (If you'd like to find out more about what makes your cacti "tick" as they do their thing in the growing season, this Wikipedia article on Crassulacean acid metabolism should be interesting.) Unless your overnight lows are consistently above 24C during summertime, dormancy won't be a problem for you. That we'll leave for people living in the deserts where days are in triple-digits and their overnight lows are more like your daytime highs!

Option 1 is fine, but I understand your concern about the sun being on the harsh side. If you can put up 40% shade cloth, most of your cacti should do well. For plants that may still be prone to sunscorch, it's best if you're able to give them some shade in the middle of the day.

Option 2 describes the coastal microclimate in the part of L.A. where I live. Only difference is that daytime highs are in the 80s and 90s over the course of my summers. I've been keeping the collection under 40% shade cloth since 2011. If that's not possible for you in option #1, this one may be better. My cacti have been doing wonderfully, so don't worry about the overnight lows. And don't worry about overnight fog either -- from what I've seen with my cacti, yours may enjoy a touch of moisture on their skin during the night.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
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ElieEstephane
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by ElieEstephane »

Steve Johnson wrote: Both options are good, although before I discuss them, I'll give you some insight into summer dormancy. The problem really isn't extreme heat during the day, but relatively extreme heat at night that keeps desert cacti from being able to open their stomata for transpiration. (If you'd like to find out more about what makes your cacti "tick" as they do their thing in the growing season, this Wikipedia article on Crassulacean acid metabolism should be interesting.) Unless your overnight lows are consistently above 24C during summertime, dormancy won't be a problem for you. That we'll leave for people living in the deserts where days are in triple-digits and their overnight lows are more like your daytime highs!

Option 1 is fine, but I understand your concern about the sun being on the harsh side. If you can put up 40% shade cloth, most of your cacti should do well. For plants that may still be prone to sunscorch, it's best if you're able to give them some shade in the middle of the day.

Option 2 describes the coastal microclimate in the part of L.A. where I live. Only difference is that daytime highs are in the 80s and 90s over the course of my summers. I've been keeping the collection under 40% shade cloth since 2011. If that's not possible for you in option #1, this one may be better. My cacti have been doing wonderfully, so don't worry about the overnight lows. And don't worry about overnight fog either -- from what I've seen with my cacti, yours may enjoy a touch of moisture on their skin during the night.
Thank you so much steve for the detailed reply! It was most helpful!
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a) :mrgreen:
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Aiko
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by Aiko »

I would choose option 2. Don't worry about the 'cold'. It really isn't cold for almost any cactus. Most can handle slight freezing temperatures. And humidity for a brief moment on a day should also not be a problem.

Up here we have much colder nights for basically all days except the most of summer. And about 60-70% humidity throughout the year on dry days, and regularly fog in autumn and winter. My plants do fine!
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ElieEstephane
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by ElieEstephane »

Aiko wrote:I would choose option 2. Don't worry about the 'cold'. It really isn't cold for almost any cactus. Most can handle slight freezing temperatures. And humidity for a brief moment on a day should also not be a problem.

Up here we have much colder nights for basically all days except the most of summer. And about 60-70% humidity throughout the year on dry days, and regularly fog in autumn and winter. My plants do fine!
Then 2 it is! Thank you so much.
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a) :mrgreen:
keith
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by keith »

Coastal mediterranean weather, full sun, day temperature: 30-33 degrees celsius (86-92 F), nighttime 20-22 C (68-72 F), frequent watering. 0 chance of rain.
However the sun is somewhat harsh and burning growth points on some of the young cacti that are not too densly spined.

Barrel cactus from the desert would like this weather I grew some in Phoenix AZ much hotter but I did shade them
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ElieEstephane
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by ElieEstephane »

keith wrote:Coastal mediterranean weather, full sun, day temperature: 30-33 degrees celsius (86-92 F), nighttime 20-22 C (68-72 F), frequent watering. 0 chance of rain.
However the sun is somewhat harsh and burning growth points on some of the young cacti that are not too densly spined.

Barrel cactus from the desert would like this weather I grew some in Phoenix AZ much hotter but I did shade them
Since i'd much rather move to the summer house and escape the heat i decided on option 2. I know some would really rather stay in the heat but it's not practical to divide the collection in 2 places.
Thank you for your reply.
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a) :mrgreen:
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DesertSun
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by DesertSun »

Hello @ElieEstephane! I live in Greece, zone 9b, so Mediterranean climate also, and that is why I found this thread so interesting to me! I have the same questions about the sun exposure, as our nights are consistently very hot in the summer months and the sun could scorch them at day. Anyway, I hope you found the right place for your cacti collection and I wish they thrive in your care! I would definitely give a shade cloth a try.
"The best fertilizer is the gardener's own shadow"
Chinese proverb
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ElieEstephane
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by ElieEstephane »

DesertSun wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:10 pm Hello @ElieEstephane! I live in Greece, zone 9b, so Mediterranean climate also, and that is why I found this thread so interesting to me! I have the same questions about the sun exposure, as our nights are consistently very hot in the summer months and the sun could scorch them at day. Anyway, I hope you found the right place for your cacti collection and I wish they thrive in your care! I would definitely give a shade cloth a try.
I actually ended up leaving most of the collection at my coastal house due to being busy (with the exception of some epiphytes, eceheverias..) in full sun with amazing growth although watering was very sporadic. Sometimes i water twice a week and sometimes only once and one time they were left for 3 weeks unwatered (the soil dries in 2 days max). It was staggering how much they grew. They could take the full sun because they were acclimated since early spring.
Some of the desert cacti (which were in intense full sun at the coast) that i moved the the mountain got severly sunburned from just a couple of hours of morning sun. This is due to more uv light hitting the plants.
You can see some of my collection here
http://cactiguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=39747
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a) :mrgreen:
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DesertSun
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by DesertSun »

You have got such an impressive collection, way to go! Lots of happy cacti there!
Oh, such a relief to me to know that they can thrive even in our weather with the intense heat and
get acclimated to our Mediterranean scorch, lol.
Happy to be here and thank you for showing me your amazing cacti! :)
"The best fertilizer is the gardener's own shadow"
Chinese proverb
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greenknight
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by greenknight »

DesertSun wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:50 am You have got such an impressive collection, way to go! Lots of happy cacti there!
Oh, such a relief to me to know that they can thrive even in our weather with the intense heat and
get acclimated to our Mediterranean scorch, lol.
Happy to be here and thank you for showing me your amazing cacti! :)
Many cacti thrive in hot desert sun, but others are adapted to grow in light shade - not all will take hot afternoon sun. Cacti generally can stand heat, but many species will go dormant when it's too hot, particularly if the nighttime temperature is too high. If this occurs, they stop taking up water and you need to stop watering - check the soil moisture, don't assume they need water because it's hot. Really, you have an ideal climate for growing most cacti, but their needs are not always what you'd think.
Spence :mrgreen:
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DesertSun
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by DesertSun »

@greenknight, thank you so much for all the advice! Much appreciated! I have so much to learn but I am lovin' it already!
I have so many other plants, I don't know what took me so long to move to cacti, but I guess it was because we didn't have an appropriate space for them to grow, now I have my south facing balcony available all for my cacti and succulents! So, all my cacti that I have right now (and the ones I will get) are going there. I will try to identify most of my cacti so I know where exactly to place them, as you said not all of cacti need the exact same conditions. What a shame nurseries do not label their cacti, it makes things so complicated.
"The best fertilizer is the gardener's own shadow"
Chinese proverb
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ElieEstephane
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by ElieEstephane »

Trying to id plants is quite easy once you get the hang of it so don't be put off by that! I think i remember you said you had mostly succulents. In our climate, these generally do best in part sun with very good results.
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a) :mrgreen:
DaveW
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Re: Best location for my collection

Post by DaveW »

Identifying plants as Elie says comes down to placing them into gradually diminishing groups. You have first identified whether it is a cactus and not one of the Other Succulent plant families. Then in the case of cacti whether it is a Cereoid, Cactoid or Epiphytic type of plant. Next which genus it probably belongs to. Then which section of that genus and finally which species it probably is. All this comes with experience over time and you do most of that automatically in your head, but it is still often difficult to name some plants as young seedlings not yet showing their adult characteristics. You often will have plants in your collection for a few years trying to determine what species it is and waiting for flowers to hopefully sort them out. In some cases you have to resort to actual botanical descriptions of the species and actually count spines.

Also how a plant has been grown can affect how it looks. A harder grown densely spined plant can sometimes look quite different to a lush etiolated one. A friend of mine, an experienced grower, moved to Australia from the UK for a time and had a job at first identifying many plants he was familiar with at home since they looked quite different in their growing conditions. When he came back a couple of his Australian friends came over and we went to a collection with some beautiful (to us) densely spined Escobaria's. His friends remarked, "I don't like those, you can't see the green body between the spines!" In the warm part of Australia they came from the plants grew virtually all year around with only a very short resting period, so always had the open spined green bodied look. He said tropical cacti like Melocactus grew like mad over there and a three year old plant would be the size of a 6-7 year old plant in the UK.

When identifying plants from photographs you often have no sense of scale, therefore it is not unknown for a beginner to identify their Rebutia as Echinocactus grusonii, or even experienced collectors misidentify plants from pictures where they would not make the same mistake handling the actual plant. We all get plant identifications wrong at times, so don't worry about if somebody does not agree with your first identification of a plant on this Forum since it is simply a case of suggestions narrowing down where to look by sorting through peoples suggestions to find out what it really is.
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