Pelecyphora aselliformis, pots, clay pots

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Karsty
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Pelecyphora aselliformis, pots, clay pots

Post by Karsty »

I have three 25-year-old-from-seed Pelecyphora aselliformises. They are obviously still small as that is the way they are.

The thing is, they reached a certain age, then started flowering. They did this for a number of years, then about 7 or so years ago they just stopped flowering. They still grow, but no flowers.

They have been in a clay tray in a grit/sand/limestone/clay soil next to Astrophytum and Lophophora for almost the whole of their lives, in good sun, but protected from the very harshest rays. (It is L. echinata v. diffusa. It grows well, but flowering is a bit erratic. The Astros always grow and flower).

This spring I repotted them into their own clay pot into a similar mix and put them high up in the conservatory, thinking they may have been lacking sun. But they still have not flowered this year. They have grown, and one seemed to get more than the usual tubercles going brown, but no flowers.

Any ideas or definite facts out there??

Cheers,

Karsty.

:?:
Last edited by Karsty on Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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toadstar
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by toadstar »

What's their winter dormancy conditions like? A lot of cacti won't flower unless they've been dry and cool for a couple months.
Karsty
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by Karsty »

Hi Toadstar,

The winter is bone dry for them from September to March, and they are at the outside edge of an unheated west-facing conservatory just north of London, England.

I haven't checked the winter temps in recent years, but I assume its about 5 - 15 C, 40 - 60 F.

?
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adetheproducer
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by adetheproducer »

They might need more light. With them being on a west facing spot they are missing all the morning sun which seems to benefit them try a south facing spot if you have one so they get more direct light all day. Mine are in a almost south facing spot so get about 8-10 hours of direct sun in the summer obviously less in the winter but still a good few hours if direct sun then as well. The temperature they are resting at seems fine pretty much the same as over here in wales. You my want to try a looser soil mix maybe loose the clay and make it more gritty and use a plastic pot they can take a bit more watering then slightly earlier and later in the year.
And as the walls come down and as I look in your eyes
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toadstar
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by toadstar »

How long do those species usually live for? Maybe they just simply have hit their peak. Could be a good time to start some new ones from seed too.
Karsty
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by Karsty »

Thanks Ade,

The weird thing is that they flowered for many or several years in a row in the same slightly shadier spot, then just stopped. And they were in the grit/sand/limestone/clay mix.

I am very wary of plastic pots for most cacti, How would it be better than clay?

The spot they have been in this year is exposed to the sun from about mid-morning to evening, although it is filtered through a slightly weathered plastic roof, and slightly weathered perspex. Still not enough sun? The best I could give as an alternative would be a south-west facing glass window.

I thought the increased browning of tubercles might be due to the increased heat and sun? It has only happened on one of the 3, which is the only one that has puppies.

?
Karsty
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by Karsty »

Hey Toadstar,

It did cross my mind, but in that case why do they still grow healthily?

I once proudly grew some Ariocarpus scapharostrus from seed and they were lovely for years, then suddenly died at a diameter of 7 or 8cm for no apparent reason. It was only later I found out that they are a short-lived cactus. I was very surprised.
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adetheproducer
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by adetheproducer »

The corking of the plant us an age or stress related growth. More sun is deffinatelly a good idea if it's not flowering. In the wild they would be exposed to many more hours of direct and hot Mexican sun. I prefer plastic pots the roots do not stick to the side if the pot as the water does not evaporate through the pot. When the roots are drawn to the pot sides which dry out quicker with clay pots the roots dry too so they then need to grow new root hairs on the next watering. With plastic pots they dry from the top and bottom so roots grown down and do not loose the tips when the soil dries. The root strength has a lot to do with overall plant health.
And as the walls come down and as I look in your eyes
My fear begins to fade recalling all of the times
I have died and will die.
It's all right.
I dont mind
I dont mind.
I DONT MIND
DaveW
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by DaveW »

I must have had mine between 20-30 years and it still flowers Toadstar, and unless I kill it, will probably outlast me! Been in a plastic pot for years too and in many different soil mixed. Plants, like humans are individuals, some may be precocious and flower at an earlier age than normal, whilst some later. Some may be long lived whilst others of the same species die young.

Why some stop flowering and just grow is often a mystery. If they are making growth at the expense of flowers then possibly trying to slow down their growth by not fertilising too often, or use a low nitrogen flower or fruit fertiliser of you do, especially if you are presently over fertilising with nitrogenous fertilisers.

My plant has been down to freezing in the past and has flowered for decades, therefore 40F or above may be a little warm in winter. Most in the UK keep their greenhouse just frost free unless they are growing the more tropical cacti.
Pelecyphora.jpg
Pelecyphora.jpg (63.5 KiB) Viewed 2959 times
Interesting your remark about a weathered plastic roof. I have not known it with modern plastics, but I remember a neighbour building a greenhouse with some early corrugated plastic which gradually changed colour due to UV degradation and all his plants stopped growing. It may also inhibit flowering, a problem you don't usually get with glass.
Karsty
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by Karsty »

The plastic roof may not be UV degraded, it's one of those modern double-skinned types, but it gets damp in the cavity, and I think algae and so on has blurred it a bit.

The perspex on the west facing upper part is just, I think, scratched up over time.
DaveW
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by DaveW »

Yes most modern plastics are OK. The chap with the problem bought one of the early clear corrugated ones, evidently not UV stabilised since it eventually turned pink due to UV degradation. Obviously coloured light has effects on plants and his tomatoes just stopped growing!

http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden- ... -light.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://succulent-plant.com/light.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Under a dirty roof the plants may not be getting a high enough light intensity. You could pot one up and try it on the window sill behind glass and see if that makes a difference to flowering?

One other problem can be artificial light affecting the plants photoperiod when they should be in the dark. Possibly a problem in cities with street lighting near a greenhouse, but I have not heard of it being strong enough in most cases. Though possibly plants growing in normal evening household lighting switched on for human benefit that extends their daylight period could possibly upset short day plants:-

"However, photoperiod responses may be induced with as little as 0.06 to 3 µE/m2/sec, which is a mere tiny fraction of what they need for photosynthesis. For reference, indoor lighting sufficient for reading is about 4.6 and full Moon's light is about 0.004 µE/m2/sec. A 100 watt incandescent bulb provides 5 µE/m2/sec at 5 feet away, while a 150 watt fluorescent cool white bulb provides 17 µE/m2/sec at the same distance."

http://physics.fau.edu/observatory/lightpol-Plants.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/garden ... day-plants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Karsty
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by Karsty »

I have no idea how Pelecyphora responds to light at night.

Reading through the Hexalog and The Stone Eaters articles it seems that using tufa in a potting mix is a very bad idea? Well, that's the only limestone I've been using in about the last 3 years! The only plants that may be reacting badly to it are the P. aselliformises, but it is not certain that that's the culprit. They've only been in tufa since this spring.

I have an Ariocarpus kotschubeyanus in a tufa mix, looking great and about to flower!
DaveW
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by DaveW »

The question as to whether cacti that grow on limestone simply tolerate it to avoid competition from more rapid growing plants that may crowd them out, or actually prefer it is often raised. One botanist stated cacti on limestone only grow when they receive acid rainwater and stop growing when the limestone turns the water alkaline. How true that is I do not know. People seem to be able to grow the plants successfully both with and without limestone in the mix:-

http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/Cacti/Cactus%2 ... linity.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Contrary to a common misconception, limestone soils are not highly alkaline - limestone itself is virtually insoluble in water and the amount of calcium bicarbonate, which has only a very mildly alkaline reaction, produced at any one time is tiny and transient as it is quickly consumed by neutralizing acidic constituents in the soil (humic acids etc.), facilitating the release of essential minerals from complex clay structures and by the plant itself. Limestone soils are, therefore generally slightly on the acid side of neutral to slightly on the alkaline side of neutral (pH7.0)."

http://www.living-rocks.com/adult.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.cactusnursery.co.uk/ph.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As always it's whatever works for you, and if it is not working try something different.
Karsty
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by Karsty »

This incredibly interesting stuff.

I am reading and taking note.

More reading and thinking, and I shall return.

Karsty.
Karsty
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Re: Pelecyphora aselliformis

Post by Karsty »

I have a problem - I see the whole object, plant plus pot plus top dressing plus saucer, as a living sculpture. I simply have to use nice clay pots because to me, the plastic pot makes them look we are there for the plant, but the plant is there for us! Something like that.

At the same time, I just feel instinctively that a clay pot because of its porosity is a must for xerophytic cacti.

If root hairs attached to the inside of the clay pot dry out and die as the pot dries, then what happens to the rest of the root hairs inside the pot when it dries out fully??

I do realise how much the roots attach themselves to the inside of a clay pot. There are various ways to moderate this problem. For example repotting when the soil is moist, choosing a pot and soil where the plant can stay in it for many many years. At the end of the day, If I am struggling to get a plant out of its clay pot, yes, I will damage roots while I am poking down the sides with a knife! But I let them dry proportionally until repotting them, and let them remain dry for some time in the new pot before watering. I have never noticed any problems resulting from this.

:mrgreen:
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