Caliche on the substrate
Caliche on the substrate
Hello guys, I collect some soil on the mointains to use in my cactus. I really dont have much things to use as substrate here. A lot of cactus live between the caliche stones and maybe could be interesting to use in the substrate for species from this places or north species. Is light, a source of calcium for the plant and also very ornamental, the only issue, degrades with the time, but I guess the dust can work to. Someone use this stones on the substrate? Can be good?
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Re: Caliche on the substrate
I thought you were all always trying to get rid of Caliche over in N. America?
http://skywalker.cochise.edu/wellerr/st ... roject.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As you say, a lot of cacti may live between it, but that may not be the soil they are actually rooted in below it. Cacti often live in soils other plants cannot in order to avoid competition from faster growing plants, therefore that does not mean these soils are optimum for their growth. Whilst it may be OK for N. American cacti, S. American cacti seem to prefer their soils slightly acid, therefore lime rich caliche would not be a good idea for them. The fact that people around the world are growing cacti is vastly different soil mixes shows that in the main cacti are not too fussy provided the soil is not toxic for them and drains well.
The bonsai people grow in similar soils to us so, therefore you may find some of the articles under horticulture in this link handy for finding something suitable for your soil mixes:-
http://www.colinlewisbonsai.com/Reading.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://skywalker.cochise.edu/wellerr/st ... roject.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As you say, a lot of cacti may live between it, but that may not be the soil they are actually rooted in below it. Cacti often live in soils other plants cannot in order to avoid competition from faster growing plants, therefore that does not mean these soils are optimum for their growth. Whilst it may be OK for N. American cacti, S. American cacti seem to prefer their soils slightly acid, therefore lime rich caliche would not be a good idea for them. The fact that people around the world are growing cacti is vastly different soil mixes shows that in the main cacti are not too fussy provided the soil is not toxic for them and drains well.
The bonsai people grow in similar soils to us so, therefore you may find some of the articles under horticulture in this link handy for finding something suitable for your soil mixes:-
http://www.colinlewisbonsai.com/Reading.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Caliche on the substrate
The statement in wikipedia about using caliche for plants sounds scary and I wouldn't use it having a choice. Also most things under my feet look not so good for cacti and I buy components from time to time.
In recent time I started to use cat litter from Wal-mart. Very basic one, having no additives or scents. Granules made of clay disintegrate with time but than will be time for soil change anyway.
In recent time I started to use cat litter from Wal-mart. Very basic one, having no additives or scents. Granules made of clay disintegrate with time but than will be time for soil change anyway.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
Re: Caliche on the substrate
Definitely I will not use cat litter. Well, I´m only ading like 10% stones and dust. I think will be okay to add some nutrients to the substrate. Someone told me make a mix soil with dark stones and clear stone, because both add micronutrients to the plants like in habitat. I have only dark stones
Re: Caliche on the substrate
Well, you have to use what you are able to find around. I tried growing some desert plants on rocks but those don't hold water long enough to provide it to cacti roots. Some doubt releasing micro-elements by rocks but it depends. Maybe cacti growing on alkaline soils can handle some caliche. You can try that.
The most admired material in this forum, pumice, is not widely available for sale where I live so it's not an option for me. Others, like zeolite, vermiculite, perlite and even quarz sand work well because these soak well or hold water around their particles so my cacti can drink. Maybe these are not good for cold and dump english greenhouses but hare comes the grower to judge the situation.
Even peat and perlite can be used successfully as mix components if you know how. Watering several times every pot from the top and below will make peat particles wet. And finishing with water in early fall months will allow that material to be dry for the winter rest, especially in dry home atmosphere. And trapping perlite particles below pot surface, covered with rock dressing or other soil material will make it to work perfectly.
The most admired material in this forum, pumice, is not widely available for sale where I live so it's not an option for me. Others, like zeolite, vermiculite, perlite and even quarz sand work well because these soak well or hold water around their particles so my cacti can drink. Maybe these are not good for cold and dump english greenhouses but hare comes the grower to judge the situation.
Even peat and perlite can be used successfully as mix components if you know how. Watering several times every pot from the top and below will make peat particles wet. And finishing with water in early fall months will allow that material to be dry for the winter rest, especially in dry home atmosphere. And trapping perlite particles below pot surface, covered with rock dressing or other soil material will make it to work perfectly.
If your cacti mess in your job just forget about the job.
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
°C = (°F - 32)/1.8
Re: Caliche on the substrate
I think there are a lot of questions here, and you're coming up with the wrong answers. "Cat litter" covers a multitude of things, from wood shavings to deliberately sticky clays, to porous fired granules that are far more durable than your caliche. Choose the right one and don't exclude them all simply because someone else is using the wrong one.
Adding an unstable form of limestone to all your plants is likely to be a disaster on a great many levels. Many cacti will not grow well in a soil containing even a small amount of limestone. Many will do fine, but not any better than without limestone. Some might do better with limestone, for a variety of reasons that might not just be chemical. Most of your local cacti will probably do OK in a limestone soil, but many from further south than Mexico (or further north) won't. You should know better than anyone that caliche, however hard it might be to dig through, is unstable in the presence of water and will move through soils to pack into an impenetrable layer. This is a nightmare in a pot and to be avoided at all costs. If you really want to have an alkaline soil mix, preferably use a small quantity of a more stable calcium carbonate mineral like limestone or (strangely enough) chalk. If you only have access to caliche, use only small quantities, certainly no more than 10% of your mix.
"Clear stones" may not translate well, but stones that actually are clear are likely to be quartz. This has no nutrient value, is almost entirely inert, and should be considered only a physical filler. If "clear" actually means white then it may still be inert or it may be limestone. "Dark stones" could be anything, good bad, or indifferent. There is a good chance that it is a basaltic rock, but some limestones and marbles are also dark. Don't rely on any type of stone to supply even a small proportion of nutrients required by a pot plant, even a slow growing one.
Adding an unstable form of limestone to all your plants is likely to be a disaster on a great many levels. Many cacti will not grow well in a soil containing even a small amount of limestone. Many will do fine, but not any better than without limestone. Some might do better with limestone, for a variety of reasons that might not just be chemical. Most of your local cacti will probably do OK in a limestone soil, but many from further south than Mexico (or further north) won't. You should know better than anyone that caliche, however hard it might be to dig through, is unstable in the presence of water and will move through soils to pack into an impenetrable layer. This is a nightmare in a pot and to be avoided at all costs. If you really want to have an alkaline soil mix, preferably use a small quantity of a more stable calcium carbonate mineral like limestone or (strangely enough) chalk. If you only have access to caliche, use only small quantities, certainly no more than 10% of your mix.
"Clear stones" may not translate well, but stones that actually are clear are likely to be quartz. This has no nutrient value, is almost entirely inert, and should be considered only a physical filler. If "clear" actually means white then it may still be inert or it may be limestone. "Dark stones" could be anything, good bad, or indifferent. There is a good chance that it is a basaltic rock, but some limestones and marbles are also dark. Don't rely on any type of stone to supply even a small proportion of nutrients required by a pot plant, even a slow growing one.
--ian
Re: Caliche on the substrate
If you're going to use cat litter or something similar, let's use the proper terminology. You're either looking for products that are either "high-fired" or "calcined" to use, otherwise they'll turn into mud.