Winter growers with artificial light

[aklaum]

Hello all,

You may remember me from my noob post a while ago:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=36330

Well, things have progressed since then. A few delirious hours on http://www.miles2go.com/ and this happened:

cacti_1.JPG (126.77 KiB) Viewed 4698 times

and this:

cacti_2.JPG (111.87 KiB) Viewed 4698 times

and also some of this (not from miles2go)

succulent_1.JPG (66.78 KiB) Viewed 4698 times

So...yeah. The problem is, all of the cacti are dormant at the moment. My son misses his cactus in his room. He only has a Northeast facing window so I don't think his Mammallaria will do well in there even when spring does roll back around.

I'm thinking I would like to set him up with a small grow light area, something table top that would cover like three or four plants so we can keep the care and interest going while we wait for spring.

Are there any interesting winter growing cacti or succulents that would do well under artificial light?

Are there any table top lighting systems that make use of relatively cool lighting (i.e. LED or Compact Fluorescent). Metal halides and the like are out of the question.

I don't mind spending the money on a good lighting system. I'm also pretty handy so DIY is an option.

A long time ago I was into saltwater reef tanks. So it seems to me that if we can now simulate equatorial sun for coral with LED lighting, we ought to be able to handle cacti needs as well.

Maybe something like this?

http://www.kessil.com/horticulture/H350.php

Maybe I'm off base.

An ideas are greatly appreciated.

[esp_imaging]

You have an impressive little collection there!
I do note that quite a few aren't exactly in the "really easy to grow houseplant" category - any over-watering and you are likely to have a few ex-cacti on your hands.
So with your north-east facing window, why not keep things simple and stack the odds in your favour with some old fashioned, easy to care for, tough windowsill succulents, which will be a least OK without any extra light?
Christmas / thanksiving / easter cacti should be happy there - somewhere between surving and thriving - and of course they will provide lots of flowering action over the next 3 months or so, or in the spring. Plus they grow at an appreciable rate of several inches per year if happy (with brand new branches sprouting throughout the spring and summer), in contrast to the fractions of an inch per year of ariocarpus and turbinicarpus. Rhipsalis and other epiphytic cacti species would be worth a try too. These plants also give the option of propagating by cuttings as well, something to keep your son interested once spring comes around.
Many Haworthias are quite happy without too much direct sun and may be OK there year round. This could also be a place for plants such as Crassula ovata (jade tee), Aeoniums, Portulaca afra and many other easy succulents to spend the winter in semi-dormancy (some water, depending upon how cool or warm the windowsill is), whilst they stay outdoors during the summer.

[greenknight]

Those red/blue led grow lights, like in your link, are good for growing plants be not so good for displaying them. I've got one for my seedlings - green plants look black under it. You don't need a special grow lamp, something in the "daylight" color temperature range would be good there. Here's a site that has a good explanation of color temperature (though you can do better on price elsewhere) - http://www.eaglelight.com/category/ligh ... mperature/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Led desk lamps have gotten quite cheap and would do the job, or you could mount an led spot light above the window. I did something like that, but I just used a clamp light fixture and clipped it to a shelf next to the window.

[cortez753]

I grow several cacti and succulents on a 2ft x 2ft table under this light setup next to a west facing window.

http://www.bulbstock.com/22526.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Pushrestart]

Beautiful cacti, its very easy to get lost on miles2go!!
My understanding of most winter dormant cacti is that should you keep the temps lower, they do not need much light since they're resting. If you bump up the temps, you have to bump up the light.
Northeast window hmmm I cant think of any cacti that would be happy in that environment year round, and unless the temps are fairly cool I wouldnt keep a cacti in a NE window.... Maybe a haworthia/gasteria will tolerate it?

[Snowcat]

I can share my experience.

I have a great problem with keeping cacti cool in winter as I grow them in a living room. In addition, I have a north-east facing window, with little to no direct sunlight. But now, after almost 3 years of cacti cultivating I can say that nothing is impossible.

First of all - growig substrate. I've tried everything - "soil for cacti" from flower shop, "soil from cacti" mized with sand, "soild from cacti" mixed with stones, leafe-soil taken from a forest mixed with small stones and, finally, small 2-3mm quartz of granite stones mixed with perlite in 4:1 ratio. The last one appeared to be the most easy in terms of cacti health. Yes, there in NO SOIL in my growing sustrate, just no-Calcium small stones and perlte wo accumulate water for plants. In such kind of substrate you can grow even "difficult" cacti. And all cacti have VERY strong roots. You can forget about a cactus loosing it's roots, like they do if you keep them in soil.

Of course, you have to feed your cacti. I use german mineral mix for cacti from Greenworld company.

Next - lighting. You HAVE to have artificial lights all year long if you keep them on a north-east window. I've tried compact fluorescent lampls, t8 fluorescent lamps and LEG grow lights. LEDs appeared to be the best. But they give purple light. I use chinese 54Watt (nominal) lamps. Like this one http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-E27- ... eb201560_9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
These lamps actually consume 15Watts each. I use 4 of them, so this in 60Watt of electricity total.

Here is my setup

I have more then 100 cacti on ONE windowsill.

And finally, you have to choose species carefully. Your good choises are:
Gymnocalicium
Melocactus
Discocactus
Umelmannia
Echinopsis (a very wide assortment of cacti now)
Astrophytum
Lophophora
Cleistocactus
Frailea
Thelocactus

Perhaps some others that I've forgotten.

Nad finally, winter.
Cacti from Brsilia can be kept warm all the winter, just water them lwaa then in summer. My melocacti, for example, bloom twice a year - in winter and in summer.

Other should be kept as cold as it is possible for a living room and almsot dry in winter. Place them closer to windows and additionally you can make a screen from plastic or even from food PVC stretch film.

Feel free to ask anything!

[jp29]

Very interesting and informative post Snowcat.

James

[Snowcat]

Thanks, James!

BTW, what happened with your site? Several key pages are missing (http://jp29.org/brdir.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)...

[jp29]

Thanks, James!

BTW, what happened with your site? Several key pages are missing (http://jp29.org/brdir.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)...

I decided to re-write it. I apologize for taking it down in bits and pieces without an explanation.

I will reload the re-written version shortly.

James

[iann]

Winter growers under light is tricky, because they like it cool and it usually gets warm under lights. Maybe lights in a basement or garage?

The good news is you can grow summer growers under lights. Pick some tropical types of cactus that don't need a cool dormant period and away you go. Copiapoas, Carribean Mammillarias, Melocactus, whatever takes your fancy. I've had Gymnocalyciums and Matucanas flowering happily under lights in the middle of winter.

[greenknight]

LEDs don't produce significant heat, that's why I recommended them. You could use a mix of grow lights and daylight LEDs, so it doesn't look so weird. If that room isn't kept too warm, winter growers would work there.

You have one winter-growing succulent already, the Baby Toes (Fenestraria rhopalophylla) - though it can be treated as a summer grower (really a Spring/Fall grower, it will go dormant in hot weather). I've seen several posts from people who were surprised by them blooming in the Winter. You'd need plenty of light for it, it likes full sun when it's not too hot - http://www.llifle.com/Encyclopedia/SUCC ... palophylla" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tropical cacti would also be good, I agree. You've got some of those, too. Another I would recommend is Mammilaria prolifera, which is always colorful with its long-lasting red fruits, quickly offsets to form large clumps - really fun cactus to grow.

[aklaum]

Thanks for all of the replies folks. Much appreciated.

I think I may have caused some confusion with the pictures so let me clarify. The first two pics of our collection are all in my garage, temps stay around 55-60 degrees F. I am treating all of these as winter dormant and they are not getting any water. The window in there is northwest facing.

The last picture of the Fenestraria and Lithops are actually in my office which is a Southeast facing window. I am treating the Fenestraria as a winter grower and it is getting watered. I am treating the Lithops as a summer grower and it is not receiving water, but I read that they still like full sun all year, hence the window placement.

Everything in the collection is in 60/40 Pumice/DG so I guess I'm a mineralist

Thanks for the link to the light cortez. That looks just about perfect for the space I'm looking to set up and can't beat that price. I'm curious what species you have under this. Do you have any pics?

Iann, thanks for the species suggestions, I will definitely check those out. Is there an easy way to tell what is tropical in the CactiGuide species lists? I've pretty much been assuming so far that cacti from Mexico and the U.S. are cool winter dormant while those from South America (Chile, Peru etc.) would be warm all year but probably have wet/dry seasons. That's probably too much of a generalization.

Snowcat, I'll check out your list as well. Thanks for sharing your experience in depth.

As we decide on a light and species to try I'll keep this thread updated.

[esp_imaging]

I've pretty much been assuming so far that cacti ... from South America (Chile, Peru etc.) would be warm all year but probably have wet/dry seasons. That's probably too much of a generalization.

Lots of commonly grown S American cacti come from too far south to be tropical, and lots grow at high altitude. So species of Rebutia, Echinopsis (now including Lobivia, Trichocereus etc), Cleistocactus, Oreocereus will be all happiest with a cold season. There are many more.

[Snowcat]

Yep but Cleistocacti also happy with warm winter, they do not suffer from it.

Echinopsis genus now is WAY TOO WIDE now... It includes plants with completely different habits. So I prefer using their "outdated" names, it gives more information...

[cortez753]

Under that light which hangs 26 inches above the table, I grow various very small C&S seedlings and a ghost pepper plant (Capsicum chinense x C. frutescens) all year round.

During the summer I place my Beaucarnea recurvata v. intermedia and Crassula ovata under that light as well. Until winter comes then move them off to make room.

During the winter I place these plants as to extend their growing season.
Adenium obesum
Adenium socotranum
Hoodia gordonii
Pachypodium densiflorum
Pachypodium namaquanum
Pachypodium saundersii
Copiapoa echinoides
Cumulopuntia sphaerica
Melocactus concinnus
Pilocereus pachycladus
Uebelmannia pectiniflora
Crassula mesembryanthoides
Crassula perforata

On the floor next to the table these plants are able to receive light as well.
Euphorbia milii v. splendens
Euphorbia trigona f. rubra