Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Discuss hardy cacti grown outside all year.
User avatar
Peterthecactusguy
Posts: 8862
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:49 am
Location: Black Canyon City, Arizona

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

just a caution, sometimes it takes a few weeks or even months for frost damage to show up.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
iann
Posts: 17184
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: England

Post by iann »

I would have said your Tephrocactus would be dead at -20C. I've had serious damage at -10C.
--ian
User avatar
exotica
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Post by exotica »

Sure, Peter.

Ian, their -15 °C record from last year motivated me to push further.
Cheers, Andrey
User avatar
Peterthecactusguy
Posts: 8862
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:49 am
Location: Black Canyon City, Arizona

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

good. I have seen frost damage myself. Everything looks good and suddenly a 20 foot tall saguaro rotted... due to frost damage most likely.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
User avatar
exotica
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Post by exotica »

I barely have memories of such a severe Winter here! Such a thick snow cover, layer over layer (>40 cm now, drifts and snow piles over 1 m in places), for weeks and temperatures in 2 digits below 0 for several days…

Since my first post in this topic, we had just one day with daily max. +5 °C and another with +2 for a few hours. Right now it is -10 and dropping. Another week with down to -20 is coming.

If my test plants survive this Winter, I can't imagine anything else they could not pass through.
Cheers, Andrey
User avatar
Peterthecactusguy
Posts: 8862
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:49 am
Location: Black Canyon City, Arizona

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

and from what I was reading the cold won't lift for a few more weeks. I feel really bad for the people in Europe who are dealing with the severe cold. I think 1944 was the last time it was this cold in Europe. From what I remember from military shows the Battle of the Bulge in 1944 was pretty cold.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
User avatar
exotica
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by exotica »

Peterthecactusguy, thanks for the compassion! :)

A picture of my backyard taken Feb. 8:
Image
The only 2 plants still visible (right of the dead tree trunk) above the snow cover are the tops of 2 Euphorbia lathyris. Now they're also beneath the snow (another 10+ cm of snow since then)… To the left of the trunk somewhere are my Opuntia-s, which I don't worry about.

I have memories of such winter periods in the late 70's and early 80's (I'm born in 1970), but not that long, snowy, and cold…
Cheers, Andrey
User avatar
Peterthecactusguy
Posts: 8862
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:49 am
Location: Black Canyon City, Arizona

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

no problem. We all have our problems in our necks of the woods. In 2010 we had some really severe flooding here in Arizona. Parts of Europe (like Rome, Italy) are getting snow. I am pretty sure they aren't used to it there. Weather patterns are interesting. We will have to keep our eyes to the skies. I think that if we look through the cycles of weather it would be interesting to compare todays weather with weather a few hundred years ago. Bet that it wouldn't be all that different.

BTW poor plants. I don't know what mine would do if it snowed here again. (I'd probably lose some saguaros from the snow)
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
User avatar
exotica
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by exotica »

A 4-th consecutive day with small "+" numbers during the day and small "-" numbers at night. Sunny from time to time…

A perfect time for all Pediocactus to have their first water shot! And they got it today. :)

Here are all the participants in 2012 Winter's frost test (-20 °C):

Image Pediocactus knowltonii SB304

Image Pediocactus simpsonii var. minor

Image Pediocactus paradinei SB502

Image Pediocactus nigrispinus HK1203

Image Pediocactus peeblesianus ssp. peeblesianus SB571

Image Pediocactus peeblesianus ssp. fickeisenii RP145

Image Pediocactus simpsonii var. simpsonii RP110

Image Pediocactus bradyi ssp. winklerii RP102

Image Pediocactus sileri SB1872

Image Sclerocactus mesae-verdae SB303

Image Echinocereus fendleri SB51
(Could somebody rectify the name? To me the plant is much more similar to engelmannii).

Image Echinocereus triglochidiatus SB104 (1)

Image Echinocereus triglochidiatus SB104 (2)

Image Echinocereus viridiflorus ssp. chloranthus

Image Echinocereus nicholii (1)

Image Echinocereus nicholii (2)

Image Escobaria sneedii ssp. sneedii var. sneedii

Image Escobaria missouriensis ssp. missouriensis var. similis

Image Escobaria missouriensis ssp. missouriensis var. missouriensis

Image Escobaria vivipara var. neomexicana SB129 (1)

ImageEscobaria vivipara var. neomexicana SB129 (2)

Image Tephrocactus articulatus var. papyracanthus and var. inermis

Image All participants together.

I apologize for the poor images quality, but I had to use my phone (still didn't get a camera).
Cheers, Andrey
User avatar
hoteidoc
Posts: 2136
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:56 pm
Location: Finger Lakes region, NY Zone 6b
Contact:

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by hoteidoc »

Great post, Exotica! If I'm reading you correctly, these guys are outdoors? Sorry for your cold & snow (I assure you, been there!). The good news is -- the snow! They should do great with all the snow (if dry)! I'm trying growing many of these in upstate NY. We've had mostly gray, 25 - 35f, with frequent snow & rain -- since Nov ](*,) . Last summer we had a mini-drought & they were in they're glory! Am anticipating heavy loses because "well-drained" bed -- even covered with large pots -- is no match for long wet cold. :( Established Opuntia will do fine! :wink: Hope you're staying warm 8) !
Once bitten by the cactus collecting/growing bug, there is no known cure!
There's no 12 step programme for Cactaholics...so I shall just have to get some more!!
User avatar
exotica
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by exotica »

hoteidoc, thanks for chiming in! These guys are outdoors, but under shelter October to February. Autumn and early Winter here is too wet and they wouldn't do without protection. The "shelter" is a sheet of PE, open 2 sides to ensure ventilation. I do not let a snow cover to form over the PE sheet - (1) I want them exposed to as much light as possible, and (2) I want them get all the cold. However, I covered them with a woolen blanket in the coldest nights as I feared for some of them (we rarely get temperatures below -15 °C, but it has been an exceptional Winter).
Cheers, Andrey
User avatar
hoteidoc
Posts: 2136
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:56 pm
Location: Finger Lakes region, NY Zone 6b
Contact:

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by hoteidoc »

Shelters are a must -- next year! Gravel first this Summer. As you said - this has been an unusual winter - for this area, too! But then I never would have had the thought "Cactus" in my head if weather was what it was 30 yrs ago! Lots of inspiration from all the different forums from people who won't listen to "can't" :D. I never would have seen the picture of a Yucca rostrata in someone's front yard in Saskatoon, Sasketchewan., Canada! =D>
Once bitten by the cactus collecting/growing bug, there is no known cure!
There's no 12 step programme for Cactaholics...so I shall just have to get some more!!
User avatar
exotica
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:01 am
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by exotica »

I would consider the test successful. :)

The images below show side by side the plants before their first soak and a month later.
Pedio- and Sclerocactus got their watering on 19.02.2012, and the rest a week later (25.02.2012).
The latest images are from 24.03.2012.

All plants have been kept wet ever since their first watering and exposed to the open air and direct sun. Nights have been in the single digits below freezing for at least 3 weeks after watering (the plants got also a snow cover for a day). The day temperatures have been gradually rising from mid 10-s to over 20°C, reaching 39°C at direct sunlight (not the air temperature, of course :D ).

As expected, the 2 varieties of Tephrocactus articulatus got severe damage. All last years segments are white and mummified; there is rot on 2 of them. However the basal segments still look alive and there are 2 segments that fall off on the soil that look fine.

The other problematic plant so far is fickeiseniorum. It is the only one that didn't take any water and worse, it is shrinking. A close inspection of the stem didn't show any signs of damage or disease, but a healthy epidermis. The upper parts of the few roots I was able to reveal below the top layer of soil look white and healthy, so I'm puzzled what might be happening. I will need to take it out for a complete inspection for sure.

There are flower buds already on some of the birst-growers - mesae-verdae will make me happy with 4 buds this year, knowltonii with at least 3, and there is already a new pup forming at the base. simpsonii var. minor threw away its buds in the same manner as last year - I don't know why. simpsonii var. simpsonii has 1 bud and looks like it will make it. paradinei has also at least 1 bud, but he was the last one to show signs, so in another week I will be more certain.

I'm very happy about Echinocereus nicholii. I didn't really expect them to pass the test, but they did, and oh, what a come back! No damage at all and in full growth already!

I'm also happy about Pediocactus sileri - there is a new areole forming! It was one of my greatest concerns.

The youngest participants - missuouriensis - barely 2 years old, inflated and in full growth already.

Excuse me, I'm not a good photographer - the zoom and angle of the images before and now differs, the quality is poor, but I hope some day I'll get my hands on it.

Image Image Pediocactus knowltonii SB304

Image Image Pediocactus simpsonii var. minor

Image Image Pediocactus paradinei SB502

Image Image Pediocactus nigrispinus HK1203

Image Image Pediocactus peeblesianus ssp. peeblesianus SB571

Image Image Pediocactus peeblesianus ssp. fickeiseniorum RP145

Image Image Pediocactus simpsonii var. simpsonii RP110

Image Image Pediocactus bradyi ssp. winklerii RP102

Image Image Pediocactus sileri SB1872

Image Image Sclerocactus mesae-verdae SB303

Image Image Echinocereus fendleri SB51

Image Image Echinocereus triglochidiatus SB104 (1)

Image Image Echinocereus triglochidiatus SB104 (2)

Image Image Echinocereus viridiflorus ssp. chloranthus

Image Image Echinocereus nicholii (1)

Image Image Echinocereus nicholii (2)

Image Image Escobaria sneedii ssp. sneedii var. sneedii

Image Image Escobaria missouriensis ssp. missouriensis var. similis

Image Image Escobaria missouriensis ssp. missouriensis var. missouriensis

Image Image Escobaria vivipara var. neomexicana SB129 (1)
(my stupid cat made a toy of this one, so its survival is in question :( )

Image Image Escobaria vivipara var. neomexicana SB129 (2)

Image Image Tephrocactus articulatus var. papyracanthus and var. inermis

Image Image All participants together (23.03.2012).
Cheers, Andrey
peterb
Posts: 9516
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:19 am
Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by peterb »

wonderful stuff, great info and a real testament to your growing skills. Looking forward to flower pics!

peterb
Zone 9
daiv
Site Admin
Posts: 23625
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Long Prairie, MN
Contact:

Re: Can they take -23 °C at night for a few days?

Post by daiv »

I agree - very good info. Happy to see that overall you had success with these.
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
Post Reply