Cacti conservation

[Nopaltzin]

Hi all ,


Just wondering whether anyone knows of any decent online resources / webpages or books about cacti conservation in the Americas ? It's a topic I find really interesting.


Thanks

[mdpillet]

If you want a list of CR/EN species then check the links in my signature. I also have a list of (possibly) extinct species on my CR list.

[DaveW]

Extinction is an interesting question for seed bearing plants. People tend to say a plant is extinct if they cannot find any living plants of the species. However it depends how long viable seed can remain in the ground as to whether the species is extinct and if it will regenerate when conditions are optimal later. For instance, using absence of plants as meaning extinction it could be said annuals go extinct every year, but in the case of so called perennials we do not know how many of them in the past have had normal plant less stages (mirroring annuals, but with a longer and more erratic intervals between plant and seed stages) to have regenerated from seed when conditions were optimal later? The oldest reliably aged seed that germinated was:-

"The record now for the oldest viable seeds is held by a 2,000-year-old date palm recovered near the Dead Sea,"

Previous claims for even older seed were discounted as unreliably carbon dated. The problem is records have only been kept in modern times and human lives are too short to accept no visible plants for longer than a human lifespan as not meaning extinction. It is possible that some cacti have periodically become "extinct" as plants to later regenerate from still viable seed in the ground. As said it depends your concept of extinction, is a plant ever extinct whilst viable seed remains in the ground?

Islaya krainziana seems have gone extinct in Northern Chile in the last 10 years due to the mist climate that previously sustained it moving south. Yet there must still be plenty of viable seed in the ground, plus they had exceptional rain in the last few years, therefore will it regenerate? But even if it does will the seedlings survive since it was the regular mists that supported their existence, not infrequent rain? We have to accept that some extinction is normal and makes way for another species to fill that niche, so not all is due to the hand of man.

[Nopaltzin]

If you want a list of CR/EN species then check the links in my signature. I also have a list of (possibly) extinct species on my CR list.

Hi mdpillet,

Thank you ever so much for your reply and apologies for my late reply. I am most definitely interested in reading more on the subject of CR/EN cacti species and I will definitely check out that list. As a student of conservation biology I want to keep up to scratch with the topic of plant and particularly cacti conservation which is kind of a budding interest of mine.

Once again thank you !

[Nopaltzin]

Extinction is an interesting question for seed bearing plants. People tend to say a plant is extinct if they cannot find any living plants of the species. However it depends how long viable seed can remain in the ground as to whether the species is extinct and if it will regenerate when conditions are optimal later. For instance, using absence of plants as meaning extinction it could be said annuals go extinct every year, but in the case of so called perennials we do not know how many of them in the past have had normal plant less stages (mirroring annuals, but with a longer and more erratic intervals between plant and seed stages) to have regenerated from seed when conditions were optimal later? The oldest reliably aged seed that germinated was:-

"The record now for the oldest viable seeds is held by a 2,000-year-old date palm recovered near the Dead Sea,"

Previous claims for even older seed were discounted as unreliably carble seed in the ground. As said it depends your concept of extinction, is a plant ever extinct whilst viable seed remains in the ground?

Islaya krainziana seems have gone extinct in Northern Chile in the last 10 years due to the mist climate that previously sustained it moving south. Yet there must still be plenty of viable seed in the ground, plus they had exceptional rain in the last few years, therefore will it regenerate? But even if it does will the seedlings survive since it was the regular mists that supported their existence, not infrequent rain? We have to accept that some extinction is normal and makes way for another species to fill that niche, so not all is due to the hand of man.

Hi Dave ,


Awesome reply , and you made a lot of interesting points here. It's interesting you mention this because there is a concept of the "Lazarus species" in conservation species which is a species believed to have gone extinct that is later found alive and well albeit in diminished numbers in some remote area. I wonder how many cacti species believed extinct are actually still out there in some remote Mexican or South American canyon or desert clearing waiting to be rediscovered and I wonder whether in this scenario , the fact thon dated. The problem is records have only been kept in modern times and human lives are too short to accept no visible plants for longer than a human lifespan as not meaning extinction. It is possible that some cacti have periodically become "extinct" as plants to later regenerate from still viabat they havent been rediscovered is due to the funding/ research bias in conservation biology in favour of fauna over flora.

On the subject of actual conservation of plant biodiversity itself , there are a lot of things I find simultaneously interesting but also depressing. I think there is always going to be an uphill challenge in conserving flora simply because they lack the "charisma" of fauna and its hard for people to experience salience with a plant and therefore people (Unfortunately scientists are included and not absolved of this bias ) are much less emotionally affected by the idea of the extinction of a plant and therefore less likely to fund conservation programs and much less to care. There is even a term/concept for the bias towards animals over plants in conservation aptly named "plant blindness". There was an interesting article about this phenomena in Mongabay a while ago that might be of interest to you , here it is : https://news.mongabay.com/2016/09/can-p ... -be-cured/. Interestingly , I wonder if there is a bias even in the plant conservation field towards charismatic flora such as orchids ? , I wonder if cacti lose out somehow to the more "charismatic" or "aesthetically pleasing" plant species.

Very interesting , indeed , I will have a read up on Islaya krainziana because admittedly this is the first time Ive heard of this species and its plight but what you touched on with the reasons for its extinction reminds me of the controversial trend / theory in conservation as a response against climatic change and its impact on species, "Assisted colonisation". Of course under climate change some species of cacti will thrive and expand their distribution range , whereas others particular endemics will suffer declines and will be pushed towards extinction. But is it feasible / recommendable / ethically and morally sound to move endemic and critically endangered species (like the Wollemi pine for example) beyond their natural range to more suitable habitats with microclimates where they stand a better chance of survival ? or should we just accept their extinction? Would assisted colonisation be applicable for cacti in light of potential ecological impacts of introduction? Would cacti enthusiasts support this ? Do cacti enthusiasts in general contribute financially to the ex situ conservation of endangered cactus species ? Sorry , thats a mammoth of a rhetorical question but I guess I have a lot of questions/ curiosity on these issues.

[DaveW]

A population of Islaya krainziana has now been found just over the border in Peru, but the original Chilean population seems to have died out in recent years. Both Ritter and Knize collected it and when my friend Roger Ferryman first went to Chile in the 1980's there were still living plants in Chile but he has noticed their gradual decline over the years until he and others can no longer find living plants.

Another interesting point is extinction can also depend on classification. Islaya krainziana is often "lumped" now under Islaya islayensis along with most other previous species of Islaya. So if you consider them all the same species then only one population has died out. If however we are a "splitter" and create microspecies, then as soon as that population dies the "species" is extinct. To take matters to the extreme, if every plant in a population was declared a separate species (as theoretically it could be, since unless clones produced by vegetative propagation, all are genetically different individuals) if one dies, as all plants do eventually, then that species is extinct. In the end extinction can often depend on how narrow your concept of species is?

There is an article on "Conservation Status of Eriosyce in Northernmost Chile" in the BCSS Yearbook "Bradleya" which if you are interested and PM me your email I could attach and send you a copy.

[Nopaltzin]

A population of Islaya krainziana has now been found just over the border in Peru, but the original Chilean population seems to have died out in recent years. Both Ritter and Knize collected it and when my friend Roger Ferryman first went to Chile in the 1980's there were still living plants in Chile but he has noticed their gradual decline over the years until he and others can no longer find living plants.

Another interesting point is extinction can also depend on classification. Islaya krainziana is often "lumped" now under Islaya islayensis along with most other previous species of Islaya. So if you consider them all the same species then only one population has died out. If however we are a "splitter" and create microspecies, then as soon as that population dies the "species" is extinct. To take matters to the extreme, if every plant in a population was declared a separate species (as theoretically it could be, since unless clones produced by vegetative propagation, all are genetically different individuals) if one dies, as all plants do eventually, then that species is extinct. In the end extinction can often depend on how narrow your concept of species is?

There is an article on "Conservation Status of Eriosyce in Northernmost Chile" in the BCSS Yearbook "Bradleya" which if you are interested and PM me your email I could attach and send you a copy.

Thank you for your reply Dave. Very interesting indeed. Is this cactus extinct in the wild , I mean were there no plants taken into captivity in the Santiago botanical garden ? or indeed other botanical gardens like Kew ? or is the case of Islaya krainziana one of total extinction? If it is total extinction ( not withstanding that there might be seeds dormant in Chile) then it is a tragic case.

I agree its quite a complex task to define extinction , not just in plants but also within animal populations too. But of course with animals things are somewhat more easier to define , although the species concept is also fraught with controversy within animal conservation too. The irony I think is that plant conservation is often in the long run far less costly and labour intensive than the conservation of animals , so really there is no excuse for conservation biologists not to be doing more to conserve plant biodiversity and there is a dire need for us as discipline to confront out subjective bias and endeavour to cure our "plant blindness" (which is something I am personally trying to do ).

I would be very interested in the article you mention , I will definitely PM you , thank you ever so much for this!

[DaveW]

Islaya krainziana is doing quite well in captivity since both Ritter and Knize originally sold the seeds and now many seed dealers offer seed from cultivated plants. In some cases ex situ conservation works better than in situ conservation, or even conservation by botanical gardens who can't grow everything, but try and explain that to CITES.

[mdpillet]

Islaya krainziana is doing quite well in captivity since both Ritter and Knize originally sold the seeds and now many seed dealers offer seed from cultivated plants. In some cases ex situ conservation works better than in situ conservation, or even conservation by botanical gardens who can't grow everything, but try and explain that to CITES.

Hi Dave,

Do you know which field numbers correspond to the former Chilean population? Sounds like I need to track these down.

[mdpillet]

Now I've got a little more time, I'll mention a few taxa thought to be extinct or in a lot of trouble.

Discocactus silvaticus is not recognized by everyone, but the locality is now a village. It is possible that there are a few plants remaining in Eastern Europe, but I have yet to track these down. Pierre Braun strongly believes they are extinct.

Discocactus subterraneo-proliferans is a similar case. It now sounds there may be another population, found by Eddie Esteves (who is unfortunately unresponsive). Most of the plants in cultivation of this species are hybrids distributed through Koehres. Since there's no reference DNA available for the real deal, it's hard to know for sure. I managed to get two near-adult plants from a British friend, and seed from Joel Lode (which was donated anonymously to him), so hopefully this is true material.

Haageocereus lanugispinus was never found again after Ritter's visit to the type locality. It's not clear if every plant in cultivation is the same clone, but it sounds like this is the case. Hakan Sonnermo has been trying to rediscover this species.

Monvillea (Cereus) estevesii is only known from a single Brazilian locality that has been completely converted to agricultural fields. It was only known for a few years before this happened. The only person that had plants lost them due to a hailstorm damaging his greenhouse in Malta, followed by frost.

Consolea corallicola from the Florida Keys is functionally extinct, as there are only males left. I have a couple clones, one from a locality extinct since the 70s.

Consolea falcata has not been officially revisited since the Haitian floods. There were less than ten plants in a single coastal location. I believe I have two clones, so hopefully I'll be able to propagate.

Mammillaria crinita ssp. scheinvariana and M. glochidiata ssp. glochidiata both were thought extinct, the former after flooding of its type locality, the latter because it is naturally rare. The first has been found in a second locality, though specimens from the type locality are still cultivated. The second seems to have rebound in a manner as suggested by Dave, seed banking.

Rhipsalis triangularis was described and then thought entirely extinct. I believe the type plant was destroyed in Berlin during WW2, but don't quote me on this. It was rediscovered and is now being cultivated.

Peniocereus occidentalis (Acanthocereus hesperius) has less than 10 plants in the wild left, as far as we know, and there is no gene flow between the highly fragmented subpopulations. One clone is in cultivation. Jurgen Menzel had a beautiful plant, from which he distributed cuttings.

Arrojadoa marylanae is an odd Arrojadoa that only grows on a single mountain in Brazil. The land is now privately owned and is being prepared for mining. According to Marlon Machado, it is not recognized by the Brazilian government and thus has no protection. It will likely be extinct in the wild soon. A lot of the population was wiped out already by what is thought to be a man-made fire.

[DaveW]

Hi MD.

I just looked on Ralph Martin's numbers database and the ones from Poconchile are the original population Ritter found.

http://www.fieldnos.bcss.org.uk/finder. ... krainziana

Evidently Karel Knize (KK) decided to call the Peruvian population Islaya krainziana v. longispina.

Yes when I was in Chile I saw how the vineyards were starting to spread up the hillsides in parts of northern Chile. Roger told me there used to be cacti there in Ritter's time but now cacti are only up the hills where the vineyards do not reach and often are different species. I also saw vineyards that had been planted but now left to die since irrigation water and that for mining is scarce in places so the mines had bought the water rights from the vineyards. Therefore after killing off the natural flora they are now left to die themselves. One can only hope cactus seed is still in the ground and they may regenerate. That is the problem with CITES, it does not allow international trade in rescued supposed endangered plants, but does not protect their habitats since they can quite legally be killed off for agriculture with herbicides, burnt by the landowner, or cleared for mining or roads.

http://boilingspot.blogspot.co.uk/2012/ ... esert.html

http://www.llifle.com/Encyclopedia/CACT ... krainziana

This an old 1968 rather out of date article on Islaya in the now defunct "Chileans".

http://www.grahamcharles.org.uk/Chilean ... Islaya.pdf

[mdpillet]

Hi MD.

I just looked on Ralph Martin's numbers database and the ones from Poconchile are the original population Ritter found.

http://www.fieldnos.bcss.org.uk/finder. ... krainziana

Evidently Karel Knize (KK) decided to call the Peruvian population Islaya krainziana v. longispina.

Yes when I was in Chile I saw how the vineyards were starting to spread up the hillsides in parts of northern Chile. Roger told me there used to be cacti there in Ritter's time but now cacti are only up the hills where the vineyards do not reach and often are different species. I also saw vineyards that had been planted but now left to die since irrigation water and that for mining is scarce in places so the mines had bought the water rights from the vineyards. Therefore after killing off the natural flora they are now left to die themselves. One can only hope cactus seed is still in the ground and they may regenerate. That is the problem with CITES, it does not allow international trade in rescued supposed endangered plants, but does not protect their habitats since they can quite legally be killed off for agriculture with herbicides, burnt by the landowner, or cleared for mining or roads.

http://boilingspot.blogspot.co.uk/2012/ ... esert.html

http://www.llifle.com/Encyclopedia/CACT ... krainziana

This an old 1968 rather out of date article on Islaya in the now defunct "Chileans".

http://www.grahamcharles.org.uk/Chilean ... Islaya.pdf

Thanks so much! At the very least some plants from that locality will be safe in cultivation for the foreseeable future. Hopefully there is indeed a seed bank, or one day offspring from cultivated plants can be replanted.

[DaveW]

Mesa Gardens has seed of it but listed as Neoporteria krainziana and N. krainziana v. longispina. No doubt other seeds men do too, and some my list it under Eriosyce.

[Nopaltzin]

Islaya krainziana is doing quite well in captivity since both Ritter and Knize originally sold the seeds and now many seed dealers offer seed from cultivated plants. In some cases ex situ conservation works better than in situ conservation, or even conservation by botanical gardens who can't grow everything, but try and explain that to CITES.

Interesting to hear , I have no doubt that ex situ conservation is more often than not a better option in the case of cacti. I think it must be incredibly hard to enforce any kind of protection of cacti from illegal harvesting and trafficking in their natural habitat. This is especially true across Latin America where its hard enough to ensure endangered animal species receive adequate conservation measures to ensure their protection from the illegal wildlife trade let alone cacti.

[Nopaltzin]

Hi MD.

I just looked on Ralph Martin's numbers database and the ones from Poconchile are the original population Ritter found.

http://www.fieldnos.bcss.org.uk/finder. ... krainziana

Evidently Karel Knize (KK) decided to call the Peruvian population Islaya krainziana v. longispina.

Yes when I was in Chile I saw how the vineyards were starting to spread up the hillsides in parts of northern Chile. Roger told me there used to be cacti there in Ritter's time but now cacti are only up the hills where the vineyards do not reach and often are different species. I also saw vineyards that had been planted but now left to die since irrigation water and that for mining is scarce in places so the mines had bought the water rights from the vineyards. Therefore after killing off the natural flora they are now left to die themselves. One can only hope cactus seed is still in the ground and they may regenerate. That is the problem with CITES, it does not allow international trade in rescued supposed endangered plants, but does not protect their habitats since they can quite legally be killed off for agriculture with herbicides, burnt by the landowner, or cleared for mining or roads.

http://boilingspot.blogspot.co.uk/2012/ ... esert.html

http://www.llifle.com/Encyclopedia/CACT ... krainziana

This an old 1968 rather out of date article on Islaya in the now defunct "Chileans".

http://www.grahamcharles.org.uk/Chilean ... Islaya.pdf

I totally agree , CITES as an organization leaves a lot to be desired in terms of implementing real world conservation actions.