Mineral mix and fertilizer

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J-M
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Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by J-M »

Hello,

I am on my way to switch to an almost 100% mineral mix and have a question.

When growing season will come, somebody really into bonsai told me to use a 3-1-2 ratio fertilizer (ex. 24-8-16) to 1/8 strength every time I water.

It sounds logical to me, but can it be applied to cacti too ?

What do you guys with a mineral mix do and use ?
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ElieEstephane
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by ElieEstephane »

Check out this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34730
Steve is 100% mineral and i forgot what fertilizer he uses but it's in there.
Plus you should check out James' (jp29) member topics and website. Lots of great info about mineral mixes and related topics
http://jp29.org/cactuscult.htm
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a) :mrgreen:
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Steve Johnson
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Location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)

Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by Steve Johnson »

ElieEstephane wrote:Check out this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34730
Steve is 100% mineral and i forgot what fertilizer he uses but it's in there.
Ah, thanks for the bump, my friend! :)

J-M, you'll find a more concise description of my growing practices here:

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34730&start=345#p339492

At least for desert cacti, the ideal NPK ratio should be 1-1-1. In my case, that's the Dyna Gro All-Pro 7-7-7 I use. Dyna Gro also sells a 7-8-6 (called Orchid-Pro), the ratio being 1.2-1.3-1, which is balanced well enough for our purposes. The problem with the 3-1-2 ratio you mention is that the Nitrogen and Potassium will inhibit nutrient uptake of the Phosphorus. That's why cacti don't do as well as they could if you're using a relatively unbalanced fert.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
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ElieEstephane
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by ElieEstephane »

Don't forget to buy fertilizer with micronutrients
There are more cacti in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
One of the few cactus lovers in Lebanon (zone 11a) :mrgreen:
DaveW
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by DaveW »

Yes soil based mixtures usually supply those micronutrients which are only needed in minute quantities, but mineral based mixtures often do not. Fertilisers used for hydroponics usually do, as do those specifically listing the micronutrients. As with hydroponics, with a purely mineral mix you are basically trying growing in an inert medium and relying on fertilising. Not exactly true, since some of the minerals may supply some micronutrients, but you cannot be sure they do. Do not over fertilise either as the plants will not grow any quicker and it may have the opposite effect.

http://succulent-plant.com/fertiliser.html
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J-M
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by J-M »

Thank you Steve, Elie and Dave,

Good I will look for a 1-1-1 ratio fertilizer with micronutrients. I have a 18-18-21 tomato fertilizer with micronutrients that I could use at 1/3 or 1/4 strength ?

If I have other questions after reading Steve's post I will let you know.

Have a good day !
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jp29
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by jp29 »

ElieEstephane wrote:Don't forget to buy fertilizer with micronutrients
Yes, I have found ......

http://www.algoplus.net/ProductInfo/cac ... tInfo.html

....... to be the best in that regard.
James
My cactus cultivation pages:
https://jp29.org/cactuscult.htm Image
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jp29
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by jp29 »

ElieEstephane wrote:.......... Plus you should check out James' (jp29) member topics and website. Lots of great info about mineral mixes and related topics
http://jp29.org/cactuscult.htm
Thank you for the reference. I am cultivating approx. 40% of my cacti semi-hydroponically using a mineral substrate in accordance with the methodology I outline with great success. The plants are uniformly robust and healthy producing an abundance of flowers and fruit.

Discocactus placentiformis growing semi-hydroponically (drain-to-waste) in my mineral mix.

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Last edited by jp29 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
James
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by Steve Johnson »

Oops, forgot to include this -- the specs on Dyna Gro 7-7-7:

Image

Dyna Gro Orchid-Pro has basically the same profile of minor and micronutrients.
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
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TimN
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by TimN »

Keep in mind that the Dyna Gro 7-7-7 is effectively 2.1-7-7. There is only 2.1% Ammoniacal Nitrogen. Read Elton Roberts' and Malcolm Burleigh pieces (links above) to understand how these two Nitrogen forms are handled by cactus/succulents.

I've been mixing my own fertilizer since I read those papers a few years ago with excellent results. I buy Ammonium Sulfate, Potash and get a high K "flowering" fertilizer that provides the K and the micro nutrients. I use a dilute solution at each watering during the growing season, as described by Roberts and Burleigh.

I live in AZ and our water is very hard (400+ppi) and very alkaline (8+). I use citric acid acidify the water. As mentioned above, the fertilizer will also acidify the water, so add fert first then test and add acid.

In my opinion.
Disclaimer: I'm in sunny Arizona, so any advice I give may not apply in your circumstances.

Tim
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jp29
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by jp29 »

Excellent post, Tim. BTW, Algoplus fertilizer is no longer available via Amazon (or other main stream suppliers). Like you, I am now mixing my own (for the same reasons you give).

Our Tucson city water hovers around pH 8.0.
James
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https://jp29.org/cactuscult.htm Image
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J-M
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by J-M »

For the fertilizer I will be fine, I found a good one with micronutrients.

For the mix, the more I read on the subject the more I am confused.

I just came across a july 2016 post from Steve were he did a test to compare the drying time of 100% pumice vs pumice/DG.
I was surprise to see the 100% pumice dried out almost 50 % faster than the pumice/DG mix. I was planning to use a mix of pumice and DG at 1:1. Being in zone 4b with high summer humidity I wonder what pumice to DG ratio will be best suited for me. I want the mix to dry as fast as possible.

Is there somebody using 100% pumice or a mix of pumice/DG living in the north east that can share with me his experience ???

If not, what do you guys think should be the best theorical pumice mix for zone 4b ?


P.S. My cacti are in a well ventilated GH in the summer and kept dry inside between 40-50f during winter.
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jp29
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by jp29 »

I have used just pumice for my drain-to-waste semi-hydroponically grown cacti for some time now with no problems, in fact, my plants flourish in either plastic or terra-cotta containers (see the photos of Discocactus placentiformis I posted earlier in this thread). What I don’t like about adding decomposed granite (DG) is it increases the weight of potted plants considerably. That is of great importance to me, because I frequently carry flats/trays back and forth between my indoor windowsill/shelf and patio/front garden patch - especially during winter months.
James
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GrowLLLTigeRRR
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by GrowLLLTigeRRR »

TimN wrote: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:03 pm Keep in mind that the Dyna Gro 7-7-7 is effectively 2.1-7-7. There is only 2.1% Ammoniacal Nitrogen. Read Elton Roberts' and Malcolm Burleigh pieces (links above) to understand how these two Nitrogen forms are handled by cactus/succulents.

I've been mixing my own fertilizer since I read those papers a few years ago with excellent results. I buy Ammonium Sulfate, Potash and get a high K "flowering" fertilizer that provides the K and the micro nutrients. I use a dilute solution at each watering during the growing season, as described by Roberts and Burleigh.

I live in AZ and our water is very hard (400+ppi) and very alkaline (8+). I use citric acid acidify the water. As mentioned above, the fertilizer will also acidify the water, so add fert first then test and add acid.

In my opinion.
Hi Tim,

I could not find those links to the Roberts / Burleigh papers. Is it that the Nitrate is leeched away or absorbed by the plant very quickly?
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TimN
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Re: Mineral mix and fertilizer

Post by TimN »

No, the Nitrate nitrogen is normally broken down by soil bacteria, but that requires consistent moisture, is incompatible with most cactus.

Here is a link to the documents.

http://ralph.cs.cf.ac.uk/Cacti/Cactus%2 ... linity.pdf

I swear by it!
Disclaimer: I'm in sunny Arizona, so any advice I give may not apply in your circumstances.

Tim
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