Something i find curious

[stefan m.]

As you know, ive been scouring the internet in the past year for seeds, and ive noticed a peculiar oddity regarding one species- cephalocereus senilis.
The odd bit is that no seeds whatsoever could be found, and yet some people commercially sell plants what we label as the old man cactus. But i would like to know if this cultivation related, the plants we actually buy are all espotoa, or there is another reason for this confusion? EDIT is this is like haworthia(dont care what its called now) attenuata/fasciata issue?

[toadstar]

That is curious.

Seed is becoming exceedingly hard to obtain and major growers have advised us that it may not be available much longer. If you have some space in your collection, now would be a good time to add one just in case.

I wonder what's the reason.

[ElieEstephane]

I think they available at cactusstore.
However, a fair part of the hairy cacti are espostoa.
As for haworthias, the only seeds i seem of find are margaritifera

[stefan m.]

Look again... and i was referring to seeds..
Also tried ordering from cactus store.. shipment went missing.. not ordering anything from US or GB anytime soon.

[DaveW]

Cephalocereus senilis is a Mexican species and as it needs to be quite large to flower and set seed probably most seed was collected from habitat in the past. But Mexico now bans virtually all export of cactus plants and seed since CITES was introduced. Therefore any seed you find now was probably smuggled out unless it comes from some non Mexican collection that has old flowering sized plants. Small seed grown plants used to be commonly for sale in the UK pre CITES.

See:-

https://arizonacactussales.com/shop/cep ... s-senilis/

Once you have handled Cephalocereus senilis it is easy to distinguish from Espostoa. As I recall C. senilis has coarser rough textured wool, (Quote:- the most striking feature is the shaggy coat of long, white hairs suggestive of unkempt hair on an old man.) whereas Espostoa's have straighter soft silky wool.

[ElieEstephane]

Cephalocereus senilis is a Mexican species and as it needs to be quite large to flower and set seed probably most seed was collected from habitat in the past. But Mexico now bans virtually all export of cactus plants and seed since CITES was introduced. Therefore any seed you find now was probably smuggled out unless it comes from some non Mexican collection that has old flowering sized plants. Small seed grown plants used to be commonly for sale in the UK pre CITES.

See:-

https://arizonacactussales.com/shop/cep ... s-senilis/

Once you have handled Cephalocereus senilis it is easy to distinguish from Espostoa. As I recall C. senilis has coarser rough textured wool, (Quote:- the most striking feature is the shaggy coat of long, white hairs suggestive of unkempt hair on an old man.) whereas Espostoa's have straighter soft silky wool.

So the small seed grown plants we are getting in nurseries recently are definitely espostoa?

[esp_imaging]

Cactus-aventures has C. senilis.
ADBLPS has C. senilis and lots of Haworthia.
Koehres has lots of Haworthia
Non specific "Old man cactus" could be Oreocereus or Espostoa.

[DaveW]

As I say the C. senilis type stiffer curly wool looks different to the silky Espostoa type. Probably it's a case of having handled both in the past to know the different look of the plants, since it's hard to describe.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=128 ... 2997096560

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Espos ... 80&bih=737

As you say esp "Old Man Cactus" and such popular names lead to confusion unlike the proper botanical ones which are recognised world wide.

There are so many misnamed pictures on the internet. For instance this one in the C. senilis link above from the red spines is obviously an Espostoa and not C. senilis.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cephalocereus- ... 2765435884

[ElieEstephane]

Even in the google searches, some of the top photos are mislabled which leads to more confusion. I think C. Senilis has longer messier wool while espotoa look like combed hair.

[DaveW]

Then to just confuse matters even more some of the Oreocereus look similar.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=128 ... hMG9uU7OpY

Flowers help to sort them out, but the problem unless we have very large plants we are unlikely to get flowers.

[ElieEstephane]

Maybe a way to describe oreocereus one can say fat stems with sturdy spines and espostoa: medium to narrow stem with thin numerous spines and smooth wool?

[ElieEstephane]

Some espostoa are identified as cleistocactus strausii which has short wool and a partially visible stem

[stefan m.]

esp imaging sorry to interject.. but i was referring to confusing is distinguishing haworthia fasciata from attenuatua, and that one is common, and the other super rare. But point taken. Will try to purchase seeds in the near future.
Dave W ,elieestephane thanks for clearing up the matter just a little bit.
Just a quick sidetrack, anyone buy from cactus aventures/kaktitos?

[mdpillet]

Cephalocereus senilis is a Mexican species and as it needs to be quite large to flower and set seed probably most seed was collected from habitat in the past. But Mexico now bans virtually all export of cactus plants and seed since CITES was introduced. Therefore any seed you find now was probably smuggled out unless it comes from some non Mexican collection that has old flowering sized plants. Small seed grown plants used to be commonly for sale in the UK pre CITES.

I believe a large proportion of European seed of C. senilis comes from one or two Mediterranean wholesalers with adult flowering specimens.