CITES Cactus Nurseries?

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DaveW
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CITES Cactus Nurseries?

Post by DaveW »

Does anybody know how many CITES registered cactus nurseries there are now able to export cultivated plants internationally? I understand the nursery has to be inspected first to grant such a status and be registered?

Cactus Mall states:-

"Before contacting suppliers please check your country's import regulations for plants. This can often make it very expensive to buy plants from abroad, much paperwork is required and there is much scope for things going wrong. For this reason only a few nurseries are willing to undertake it."

I can only find these on the Web:-

http://www.uhlig-kakteen.com/presse1e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This Swiss link seems to indicate 4 were registered in 2002 and of the same date only certain countries could import Appendix II plants using just phytosanitory certificates, others required full CITES certification as well?

http://www.kakteen.org/citese.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anybody have more up to date information on what cactus nurseries are registered, or what is the current requirement for importing plants from another country and cost of the required paperwork? As far as I am aware it is not really worthwhile for amateurs to import cacti from abroad other than within the EU, since most nurseries do not want the hassle of getting registered or of obtaining the documentation required in order to export anyway? I know British Nurseries say it is financially unviable for them to export outside the EU.

Certainly most advertising cacti on EBAY will not be easily able to export, if at all.
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Saxicola
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Re: CITES Cactus Nurseries?

Post by Saxicola »

The hardest part you will encounter in this process is the EU's ridiculously stringent import requirements for any plant. Basically a foreign nursery needs to have multiple inspections by their country's agricultural inspectors over the course of several months before they are allowed to export the plants. So a nursery that regularly exports to the EU is going to have to arrange and pay for inspections once or twice a month pretty much as long as they are in business. The idea is to make certain the plants are quarantined and free of pests and disease, but the real world effect has been that few nurseries bother anymore but smuggling has increased.

Now, about your CITES specific questions. I can't recommend any nurseries off the top of my head, but assuming you can find one that legally exports to Europe, you need to confirm that the plants you want can be exported. Being a CITES registered nursery is the base requirement to export CITES plants, but it doesn't allow you to automatically export anything on CITES. You have to register each species you want to export with the CITES authority in your country. I ran into this problem on my recent trip to Thailand. I met a producer of rare Euphorbias and Cacti. He had all the permits needed for the Euphorbias but because there was little international demand for his cacti he hasn't bothered registering them. So I could only bring back the Euphorbias with me.

You also list how many plants you have, and how many you have propagated (and sold) every year too. So if you say you have 10 plants, you can only get a maximum of 10 CITES export permits for that plant in a given year even if you were to propagate and have more ready by mid year (that would go on next year's list). Another issue is they want to know where you got your plants, and sometimes it can be hard to document that the ones you have came from plants that were originally imported legally.

Cost of permits varies by country. In Thailand I think the phytosanitary certificate and CITES combined were around $10 total. Here in the US it costs me $50 just for the phyto and I don't know how much it would be for a CITES because I'm not yet registered for that.

I plan to start doing some exporting of my plants in the future but not to people in the EU unless/until they ease up on their import requirements. To show you a contrast, import into the USA simply requires a phytosanitary certificate from the country of origin, an import permit (which is a general permit that can be used as many times as you want over the course of 5 years and any idiot can obtain), and that it passes a visual inspection by agricultural officials when it arrives in the US. For CITES plants the basics are the same except you need a CITES permit from the sender and a different type of general import permit which is very easy to get.

By the way, seeds are much easier to import into the EU as they don't have that 3 month quarantine and inspection requirement, plus CITES II seeds don't need CITES permits (CITES I still does though).
I'm now selling plants on Ebay. Check it out! Kyle's Plants
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Carl_B
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Re: CITES Cactus Nurseries?

Post by Carl_B »

Saxicola I can only imagine that DaveW means European Nurseries that will export out of Europe to the rest of the world? as the two nurseries he has linked too are German and he is based in the UK (Within the EU) and it's well known that you can send plants anywhere pretty much within the European Union (some high risk plants such as potatoes etc. are banned)

It's a very expensive process which as Saxicola say's requires regular premise inspections for phyto's long before you involve CITES as well as an inspection of the material being sent and is not worthwhile unless you are doing large batches of plants say once every few months or have a customer who is desperate and will pay any sum.

on a side note I know Kakteen-Haage export to the US so they must be CITES registered.
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Saxicola
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Re: CITES Cactus Nurseries?

Post by Saxicola »

Rereading his post it seems you are correct. I guess it didn't make sense to me why he would be asking that particular question when he is in the UK so my brain must have flipped it around to one about importing into the EU.

I think I will go ahead and leave my post up because someone in the EU will be on this forum at some point looking to import CITES plants and may find my reply helpful.

I looked at Kakteen Haage just now and they do state they provide CITES. That paperwork is 30 Euros and a Phyto appears to be 22 Euros. I know Specks does CITES too (but for some reason won't ship to the US!). Succseed in Sweden does CITES export as well I believe.

That Swiss link is a little confusing but I think I know why. It isn't in the EU but in a lot of ways is treated like it is. So I think some EU countries have an agreement with Switzerland that lets it act like an EU country in terms of CITES, but other EU countries won't do that. Outside of agreements like this every country will require CITES paperwork on live plants of appendix I and II.
I'm now selling plants on Ebay. Check it out! Kyle's Plants
DaveW
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Re: CITES Cactus Nurseries?

Post by DaveW »

I was asking because I had rather got the idea that though it is theoretically possible for amatures to export/import plants on CITES appendices I and II across borders the CITES authorities seem to conspire to make it virtually impossible in order to stop the trade by making it too laborious for dealers to want to do so, or too expensive for small orders, and Saxicola's remarks have confirmed that for me.

In the EU we can freely export/import to and from other countries within it, but not from or to those outside. We also have the situation of having two authorities making similar regulations. Only sovereign countries can belong to CITES, therefore the UK is a member (as are all the other EU countries I believe) and follow CITES rules on trade to and from countries outside the EU. However the EU being a trading block not a sovereign country cannot belong to CITES (though I think it did once try and join) therefore it has introduced a similar parallel set of regulations to CITES for all it's members.

The EU also coerces it's members into majority block voting at CITES conferences, even if some member countries do not agree with the proposals. All are supposed to vote as the EU majority wants. I once spoke to one of the past UK representatives to CITES and he said the UK sometimes disagreed with some resolutions but was expected to vote as the majority of the EU wished. That is contrary to the aims of CITES that sovereign countries should vote independently and not as a block, though of course other countries around the world block vote also.

However many new species seem to find their way into the EU through some of the E. European members who apply the regulations far more laxly. They then produce seed and further plants which can be distributed freely and easily throughout the EU.

It seems rather strange that all countries subscribing to CITES have different interpretations of the documentation required. However it is a long time since I read CITES, but I seem to recall there is a clause it's regulations only apply provided they do not conflict with any members national law, which then takes precedence? However if those laws are considered too lax CITES can revoke their membership and then other members cannot export plants on it's appendices to them?

By the way, did you know some CITES members will permit botanical gardens in other countries to collect a few specimens for scientific research, with the proviso when they have finished with them they are all destroyed and not passed onto the commercial trade for propagation and distribution. So much for conservation being a CITES aim!
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