The mineralists

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jp29
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Re: The mineralists

Post by jp29 »

iann wrote:Why does this even need discussion? Is there anyone who has been growing cacti for more than 18 months that still thinks a bag of peat and a bit of perlite is a remotely sensible thing to grow them in? Rocks and dirt, usually with a little organic material. Most everything else (including the semi-hydroponics crowd) is a compromise made by people who can't get their hands on a suitable combination of rocks and dirt.
Edit: struck out a comment that was mean-spirited - out of character for me - my apologies.

But isn't the purpose of a Forum such as this to discuss topics that are introduced by it's members? Appropriateness and suitability of content are determined by Administrators and Moderators (Forums are not democratic) not by individual members.

Iann, It seems to me that if you feel this discussion is unneeded -- or you don't like it -- then the best thing for you to do is not to participate in it. To me you did come across as a little huffy and imperious -- which seems out of character for you. :(
James
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DaveW
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Re: The mineralists

Post by DaveW »

Like it or not James you and I are old enough and have been growing cacti long enough to know cactus cultivation goes in fashions and probably always will. We have had the John Innes plus grit, Endeans baked clay, Buxbaums broken brick, then University of California peat mixes popularised by Levingtons in the UK, followed by coir and pearlite, then cat litter and in the US pumice as well. Possibly in another decade or so collectors will all be growing them in reusable plastic granules in hydroponic systems. But I would not bet there will not eventually be a "back to nature" revolt and collectors will start growing again in "real soil". Just like with women's fashions where the mini skirt always periodically returns whatever fashion dictates in the meantime! It would be interesting for those still around to return in 20 years time to see if they are still growing in the same potting mixtures they swear by now. :lol:
willow
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Re: The mineralists

Post by willow »

Hello all,
Very interesting discussion going on here. I have learned alot by reading such discussions as fairly new to cactus growing(although Ive had a couple for a long time) I have now repotted from peat which i previously thought was the correct stuff! My Arios are flowering as is my astrophytum but not sure if this is because of "near death" Last chance to spread its genes, not sure time will tell!
Thankyou all for this discussion
Willow
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jp29
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Re: The mineralists

Post by jp29 »

DaveW wrote:Like it or not James you and I are old enough and have been growing cacti long enough to know cactus cultivation goes in fashions and probably always will ...........
Ah, true words, Dave.
.......... But I would not bet there will not eventually be a "back to nature" revolt and collectors will start growing again in "real soil" ...........
No bet!
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jp29
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Re: The mineralists

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willow wrote:.......... Very interesting discussion going on here. I have learned alot by reading such discussions as fairly new to cactus growing (although Ive had a couple for a long time) .......... I have now repotted from peat which i previously thought was the correct stuff! ......... Thankyou all for this discussion
Thank you for participating in it, Willow. I would like to clarify my views relating to this topic. First, I am not in "lock-step" with "The Stone Eaters", but I do primarily use mineral based growing media and have had great success doing so.

I have had particularly good success growing Brazilian cacti, in containers, here in Tucson, Arizona for several years mostly using a medium consisting of 80% coarse pumice and 20% aged and weathered pine bark. Since adopting that mix my plants have grown consistently healthy and robust with great spination and they have produced bountiful flowers and fruit. I still have a number of cacti growing in that mix in greenhouses at Dan Bach's Cactus Nursery here in Tucson.

As I have mentioned in a companion post, I now grow my plants at our townhome in plastic pots using straight pumice and Hydroponics Drain-to-Waste methodology (nutrients supplied via a liquid fertilizer containing micro-nutrients). I am doing that because I need my potted plants to be light weight due to my age, edema, arthritic knees and a winter maintenance regimen which involves staging my plants indoors on south facing windowsills at night, and during cold days, and carrying them outside to the patio for the benefits of sunshine and fresh air during the 60°F+ (approx. 16°C+) days that we frequently experience during our Tucson winters. I can safely carry two trays each containing eight plants in small square plastic pots (but no more). I am very unsteady on my feet these days and have already fallen several times -- twice hurting myself severely -- I cannot afford to fall again. Watering is a chore and I like the fact that it is almost impossible to over-water using this growing medium (I often forget the previous watering date).

So that is how I grow my plants here in Tucson using predominantly mineral growing media -- which I do like. But that is for me in my circumstances -- it may not work at all well for you, Willow, or any other enthusiast for that matter. I think you are on the right track to growing success by participating in these discussions and, of course, reading authoritative books (and researching via the Internet). Listen to all sides during discussions -- the counterpoints are often the most instructive and valid.

In summary, I think that selection of growing media should be based on the species of plants grown, how they are grown and where they are grown -- always bearing in mind the need for good drainage, root aeration and nutrition.
James
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K.W.
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Re: The mineralists

Post by K.W. »

Good morning James,
I cultivate my plants for more than 20 years in pure mineral substrate.
During this time, the mini-skirt has come and gone. ( not :o )
But with the substrate for my 6-7000 plants, I'm still satisfied.
I think cultivation in mineral substrate is the logical consequence of our knowledge of the living conditions of cacti (and many other succulent plants).
I am tired to discuss it - everyone should do it according to its custo.
BUT, in comparison with many plant lovers - my plants bloom and grow like crazy. . .

Am I on the wrong path?


Best wishes

K.W. one of the mineralists :wink:
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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jp29
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Re: The mineralists

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K.W. wrote:Good morning James,
I cultivate my plants for more than 20 years in pure mineral substrate ...........
Good afternoon, K.W. I suspected that. :) I have likewise cultivated a number of my plants in pure mineral substrate for about the same length of time as you .......... but not my entire collection as you have ........... but now I do.
.......... But with the substrate for my 6-7000 plants, I'm still satisfied ........... everyone should do it according to its custo.
BUT, in comparison with many plant lovers - my plants bloom and grow like crazy .......... Am I on the wrong path?
I am constantly amazed by the enormous number of superbly grown plants that you feature daily at Member topics: Every day new flowers in the greenhouse in Köln -- so I would say you are not only on the right path, you have arrived at the destination. :salute:
.......... K.W. one of the mineralists :wink:
Me too.
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keith
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Re: The mineralists

Post by keith »

Hello James,

Long time ago I switched to desert soil mixed with pumice or small lava rocks and diatomaceaous earth which turns the whole mix grey colored. Use to use the pool stuff now I use the edible kind of diatom. earth.

Many years growing like this in both Arizona and California. Some cactus do very well some not so great in this mix. epithelanthas seem to do very well so does mammillaria herrerea and plumosa.

I started mixing in organic in with some types that seem stunted in the above mix. still experimenting. Most cactus growers who sell cactus use peat moss which stains water brown ugh.

I have been to Bachs that place is great lots of cactus even some rare ones form time to time. I love the mammillaria greenhouse with the great mature cactus of all types.
keith
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Re: The mineralists

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medium consisting of 80% coarse pumice and 20% aged and weathered pine bark."

I tried a similar mix once with an Epithelantha it stunted it I think , long time ago right before I radically switched my soil mix. I bet your mix is an Acid soil. You like Brazilian cactus which must like acidic soil ? Weathered pine needles = Acidic ?

Most growers probably want one neutral mix for everything. I like Epithelanthas and other small Mexican desert cactus so I can add diatomaceaous earth which I bet runs basic.
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jp29
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Re: The mineralists

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Hello Keith.
keith wrote:.......... Long time ago I switched to desert soil mixed with pumice or small lava rocks and diatomaceaous earth which turns the whole mix grey colored ..........
I used a very similar mix to yours a number of years ago except I used decomposed granite versus your lava rocks and skipped the D. earth (increasing the pumice amount instead) -- it worked quite well for me.
.......... I love the mammillaria greenhouse with the great mature cactus of all types.
I like that too -- some great mature clustered Copiapoa's -- I believe that includes much of the late Dr. (Professor) Archie Deuchtman's collection.
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jp29
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Re: The mineralists

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keith wrote:medium consisting of 80% coarse pumice and 20% aged and weathered pine bark." .......... I bet your mix is an Acid soil. You like Brazilian cactus which must like acidic soil ? Weathered pine needles = Acidic ? ..........
Yes on all counts.

As I mentioned previously, I am now growing all of my plantsi hydroponically (drain-to-waste) in straight pumice .......... I check and adjust the solution pH to 5.5 - 6.0 .......... growth is the best I have ever attained -- especially the Discocactus horstii and Euphorbia balsamifera.

Image
This morning at 10:30 am - broken sunshine: 75°F (approx. 21°C)
Euphorbia balsamifera stock plants
Discocactus horstii de-grafted and rooted seedling
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jp29
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Re: The mineralists

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keith wrote:medium consisting of 80% coarse pumice and 20% aged and weathered pine bark."

I tried a similar mix once with an Epithelantha it stunted it I think , long time ago right before I radically switched my soil mix. I bet your mix is an Acid soil. You like Brazilian cactus which must like acidic soil ? Weathered pine needles = Acidic ?

Most growers probably want one neutral mix for everything. I like Epithelanthas and other small Mexican desert cactus so I can add diatomaceaous earth which I bet runs basic.

I do grow some other cacti besides Brazilians - especially those from the Del Rio to Marathon region of west Texas (mostly out of nostalgia for the countless trips I made to that area during the early 1950s). My Epitilantha's, etc. grow very well in my 80% coarse pumice and 20% aged and weathered pine bark mix. I have not grown any hydroponically (drain-to-waste) in straight pumice -- yet.
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jp29
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Re: The mineralists

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jp29 wrote:.......... I do grow some other cacti besides Brazilians - especially those from the Del Rio to Marathon region of west Texas (mostly out of nostalgia for the countless trips I made to that area during the early 1950s). My Epitilantha's, etc. grow very well in my 80% coarse pumice and 20% aged and weathered pine bark mix ...........
I thought I had some pics of cacti from West Texas growing in that mix:

Image
Echinocereus davisii (?) seedling - seed collected between Sanderson and Dryden

Image
Echinocereus davisii (?) in flower

I couldn't find a pic of Epithelantha micromeris -- I will take some when I go out to Dan Bach's tomorrow.
Last edited by jp29 on Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The mineralists

Post by DaveW »

"Many years growing like this in both Arizona and California. Some cactus do very well some not so great in this mix. epithelanthas seem to do very well so does mammillaria herrerea and plumosa."

As you say Keith it would indicate the ones that thrived preferred an alkaline soil, whereas the others that sulked preferred it on the acid side of neutral. If your adding pine bark or other forms of humus like peat you are generally reducing the alkalinity of the mix. As a rough guide most N. American cacti prefer or tolerate a slightly alkaline soil, whereas most S. American cacti seem to prefer or even need a soil that is on the acid side of neutral. You can grow most cacti in a neutral soil, but as you have found some will sulk if the soil is too acid or alkaline.

Of course whether a truly mineral soil is acid or alkaline will depend on the acidity or alkalinity of it's components. You may need a different mineral soil mix for some N. American species to S. American ones in order to grow them satisfactorily unless it is truly neutral.
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Re: The mineralists

Post by keith »

mostly out of nostalgia for the countless trips I made to that area during the early 1950s"

I visited Big Bend once for a day what a great place !!
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