Is this Epithelantha sulking?

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Steve Johnson
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Is this Epithelantha sulking?

Post by Steve Johnson »

Interesting question, although an odd one for people who aren't familiar with the word "sulk" as it pertains to growing cacti. Yeah -- I know it's obvious if you think about it, but just another word which describes thirsty plants asking for water. Anyway, while most cacti just start shrinking when they act sulky, some striking examples can be found with cacti that exhibit "sulk rings". Here's one featuring my first Epithelantha -- a micromeris I got from the California Cactus Center in spring 2012. This is what it looked like that August:

Image

After correcting a few missteps in the way I was growing it, the micromeris finally established a strong, healthy root system last summer. However, I underestimated how much water this very thirsty plant wanted. Watering frequency was every 2 weeks, followed by the winter dry period, then taking up that schedule again in spring. I upped the frequency to once a week at the beginning of June, and the sulk rings are almost gone. Wonderful to see, but this tells you how long it took for me to figure things out. I'll show you the results after more weekly watering with a sulk-free micromeris. For that, we still have some waiting to do with photos I'll post up in a new thread. Until then, I'm keeping my eye on the 2 new Epithelanthas I received in December -- as the story here continues...

One is a bokei which started establishing more easily than I expected. This tiny gem is definitely taking up water and growing, although a sulk ring should still be expected. Like here:

Image

I put it on the same summer watering schedule as the micromeris, so the bokei probably won't be sulking much longer. My other new Epithelantha is a gregii 'rufispina'. After knowing what they are, sulk rings on the micromeris and bokei were readily apparent. But in the absence of sulk rings, the gregii is something of a mystery to me. As with the bokei, this cactus has established well enough to take up water and grow, but I'm darned if I know whether or not it's thirsty enough to justify keeping it on weekly watering for the rest of the summer. I decided to put this to a test when I let it go for a week between waterings. So that was watering on 6/28, then 2 weeks later. Here it is a few hours before watering on 7/12, then 6 days after on the right:

Image

I'm satisfied with how well the gregii has done thus far, so this is just a request for some feedback from anyone who knows more about the species. And there you have it -- is this Epithelantha sulking? If the answer is "yes", I'll keep up with the gregii's weekly watering schedule until the growing season is over.

Thanks for your help!
Last edited by Steve Johnson on Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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sundanz
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Re: Is this Epithelantha sulking?

Post by sundanz »

I dont see any pics?
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Is this Epithelantha sulking?

Post by Steve Johnson »

sundanz wrote:I dont see any pics?
Try again. I host all my pics on OneDrive, and occasionally they don't want to come through. Temporary glitch, although I don't know if the problem comes from the Windows Live web servers, or maybe a bottleneck with CactiGuide's web hosting server.
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bruno
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Re: Is this Epithelantha sulking?

Post by bruno »

It is a matter of taste, I do prefer growing Epithelantha the hard way, to try match how these plants look like in their habitat as much as possible. This way you never see the green stem across the spines, they get plump just after rare watering and keep what you call sulky rings for most of the time. To keep plants as natural as possible and avoid the risk of rot, I water them every three weeks or so here in Rome/Italy.

Just a few links to pics of plants in habitat ...
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/235115/#b
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/235117/
http://northants.bcss.org.uk/nl191/bb14.htm

Ciao :)
bruno
DaveW
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Re: Is this Epithelantha sulking?

Post by DaveW »

As Bruno says it depends whether you like inflated show winning "balloons", or something more natural looking? Plants in habitat are probably only fully turgid for a short time then tend to "concertina" a bit as they loose moisture, which is natural.

Also see this article on Epithelantha with habitat shots, it is bi-lingual with the same text in English:-

http://www.atmosfera-d.it/images/storie ... _Epith.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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BarryRice
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Re: Is this Epithelantha sulking?

Post by BarryRice »

I agree that "sulking" is descriptive, but is it a word used in cactus horticulture as a whole, or us it just unique to this forum or some other subset of cactus growers?
I'll grow it as long as it doesn't have glochids. Gaudy flowers a plus.
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Is this Epithelantha sulking?

Post by Steve Johnson »

BarryRice wrote:I agree that "sulking" is descriptive, but is it a word used in cactus horticulture as a whole, or us it just unique to this forum or some other subset of cactus growers?
Given the many thousands (perhaps millions?) of cactus enthusiasts worldwide, it stands to reason that different subsets of growers have come up with their own ways of describing cactus behavior. I hadn't heard of sulking and sulk rings before I joined the forum, but I doubt these terms are unique to our members. I find the descriptions rather amusing, and I do like them! :)
DaveW wrote:As Bruno says it depends whether you like inflated show winning "balloons", or something more natural looking? Plants in habitat are probably only fully turgid for a short time then tend to "concertina" a bit as they loose moisture, which is natural.
I don't go to cactus shows, so I wouldn't know what "show winning balloons" look like. And unfortunately I can't spend nearly as much time as I'd like to visit other collections and talk cacti face-to-face with other growers. However, I've spent more years being around cacti in various settings than you may realize, so I'm not without a decent intuitive feel for how I believe my plants should be growing. The opportunity to hear from different perspectives has been an invaluable part of the process, and even now I continue to refine my approach based these latest considerations. If y'all wouldn't mind indulging me as I think out loud here...

From what I've been able to gather, there are 2 basic schools of thought. One is pampering cacti to the nth degree with the goal of producing flawless show-quality plants -- whether these people actually take their plants to shows is beside the point. (While I love my cacti, I'm not that dedicated! :lol: ) The other is to grow our cacti so that they'll emulate their growth in the wild as closely as possible. Not being a fan of "either/or" propositions in general, IMO I believe there should be a "middle ground" approach open to hobbyists. This proposes the idea that we can maintain our cacti with more growth potential than they would have under habitat conditions, but without veering into the opposite extreme of producing lush, overfed plants that bear little or no resemblance to their wild brethren. While I do prefer growing my cacti on the hard side, I find that middle ground more attractive in the approach I'm taking. If us hobby enthusiasts are keeping collections at all, let's face it -- we're growing cacti for our own enjoyment! (Botanical gardens are more well-suited to the higher purpose of conservation, but that is subject better left for debate elsewhere.) So here's a rhetorical question growers should answer for themselves. Do you know all your choices when it comes to how you grow your cacti? If you can make comparisons among nursery-grown cacti, plants being cultivated by other hobbyists, and the same (or similar) species in the wild, then you'll be able to make up your own mind instead of going by what someone else says you should be doing. Then how you implement your decisions will be up to you. After my grand disquisition, this bring us back to the topic at hand...

I can't find any habitat photos of Epithelantha gregii 'rufispina', so I'm only able to go by the pics I've seen on Cactuspedia. My time for doing online research is severely limited, so if any of you could help me out, I'd be incredibly grateful. With that said, a rule of thumb I follow is to figure on at least 1 growing season for new cacti that need to fully establish their roots. This includes the gregii, so I decided that it should get deep watering once a week until the summer heat is tapering off into fall. Some well-directed PMs from C and D Plants indicate that weekly watering is perfect for my winter acquisitions which happen to be species native to the southwest US and/or Mexico. Even the latest spring arrivals I received should be well-established by then, so I'll have to revisit my decisions on watering frequency next spring. But these days everything seems happy with what I'm doing -- be it once a week, every 2 weeks, or whenever particular cacti need to look thirsty before they get water.

Thanks so much for your feedback, guys -- very helpful! :D
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DaveW
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Re: Is this Epithelantha sulking?

Post by DaveW »

It's always hard to know what is "normal" for cacti Steve. Some plants in habitat live much longer than us and gain a greater size than in cultivation, whereas some of the really small species have a much shorter habitat life, maybe only a few years, and never attain the size of cultivated plants, constantly regenerating from seed in the wild. What do I consider uncharacteristic "bloated balloons" which usually win shows? I would think some of the Ariocarpus in this link are far taller and more bloated than any plants you would find in the wild, but many collectors would love to have them even though they are really untypical of the species in habitat where they may be even larger in width, but much lower to the ground:-

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load ... 10416.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Evidently E. rufispina has been moved around a few times since it was first described, from species to varieties of both micromeris and gregii simply because some people would split Epithelantha into numerous forms and species, whereas others would claim they are all just one variable species = micromeris.

Would you consider this link normal growth when compared with habitat? But if you looked at my David Donatti link previously you would see some forms do grow columnar or even "necked" in habitat:-

http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/EPITHE ... ispina.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.llifle.com/Encyclopedia/CACT ... _rufispina" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Donati, Zanovello, Epithelantha book does not recognise rufispina, but says on page 22 under E. gregii:-

"On the mountain range west of Saltillo (COAH. MEX), south of the alluvial plain called Laguna Mayran, on brown limestone substrates and reddish sandstone, the plant assumes a rather mimetic morphology showing a greater inclination to clump. It can be associated to E. rufispina, also described by H. Bravo Hollis."

As to "sulking rings" that is probably normal for Epithelantha for most of the year, as in this one in habitat. And note it can't be that dry as the grass is growing:-

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/235115/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Steve Johnson
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Re: Is this Epithelantha sulking?

Post by Steve Johnson »

Thanks, Dave -- this is a really good discussion. And definitely worth a follow-up, so I'll post photos of what all 3 of my Epithelanthas look like now over the weekend. Since comparing notes may be helpful for other folks on the forum who grow them (or would like to), my thoughts on how I'm approaching their watering care will include what I have in mind for next year's growing season.

Okay, my friends, let's keep in touch here. I'll certainly welcome any more comments you'd care to offer!
If you just want photos without all the blather, please visit my Flickr gallery.
My location: Los Angeles, CA (Zone 10b)
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