Notocactus warasii..
- *Barracuda_52*
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Notocactus warasii..
Notocactus warasii??
I picked this beauty up lastnight from Meijers, they normaly dont carry many cacti durring the winter months other than just a few grafted and Fairy Castles and when i saw this only one stuck in the mix of the others i just had to have it. was just wondering if i got the name right on this one.
I picked this beauty up lastnight from Meijers, they normaly dont carry many cacti durring the winter months other than just a few grafted and Fairy Castles and when i saw this only one stuck in the mix of the others i just had to have it. was just wondering if i got the name right on this one.
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- cactuspolecat
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The bluish bloom on the epidermis suggests magnifica with this one, I've had someone tell me that is one way do distinguish between the two, though I don't think it's quite as simple as that... I always thought warasii was simple (solitary) or infrequently produced offsets, whereas magnifica offsetted prolifically...
The description I have has warasii growing to 80cm tall and 13cm-15cm wide, 15-16 ribs and only occasionally branching, and magnifica as globular later elongated, 7.5cm-15cm wide , 11-15 ribs, glaucous (meaning = of a light bluish-gray or bluish-white color, or having a powdery or waxy coating that gives a frosted appearance and tends to rub off)... Tony Mace, "A Review Of The Genus Notocactus Including Brasilicactus, Eriocactus and Wigginsia" 1975 NCSS Sussex.
Backeberg describes the plant as "sometimes" offsetting...
My Warasii is around 18cm tall and 9cm across and was born in 1979 and it has never offsetted (and has only 13 ribs)...
these two pics are of the same plant pic #2 is when the plant was grown a bit harder.
And for comparison, one of my magnificas...
CP
The description I have has warasii growing to 80cm tall and 13cm-15cm wide, 15-16 ribs and only occasionally branching, and magnifica as globular later elongated, 7.5cm-15cm wide , 11-15 ribs, glaucous (meaning = of a light bluish-gray or bluish-white color, or having a powdery or waxy coating that gives a frosted appearance and tends to rub off)... Tony Mace, "A Review Of The Genus Notocactus Including Brasilicactus, Eriocactus and Wigginsia" 1975 NCSS Sussex.
Backeberg describes the plant as "sometimes" offsetting...
My Warasii is around 18cm tall and 9cm across and was born in 1979 and it has never offsetted (and has only 13 ribs)...
these two pics are of the same plant pic #2 is when the plant was grown a bit harder.
And for comparison, one of my magnificas...
CP
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G'day from down under in Devonport, Taz, the HEART of Oz.
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- *Barracuda_52*
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The size is 4 inches tall by 3 1/2 inches wide i really dont think its a magnifica, as it looks alittle diffrent than the magnifica i have. My magnifica has 11 ribs where as this one has 12 ribs. I will snap a pic of this one next to my magnifica "BIG BERTHA" and post it here. It looks like some of the warasii i have seen pics of. I could be wrong but hey thats what your all here for to help me figure out WHAT IT IS....
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- *Barracuda_52*
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Ok heres few pics of the suposed Warasii on the right and "BIG BERTHA" Magnifica on the left..
top view
side view
and then a pic of Big Berthas top. theres deffinately a diffrence between these 2.
and then a few pics with another smaller one that could possibly be one or the other not sure yet unless someone knows what it is.
top view this one has 12 ribs.
top view
side view
and then a pic of Big Berthas top. theres deffinately a diffrence between these 2.
and then a few pics with another smaller one that could possibly be one or the other not sure yet unless someone knows what it is.
top view this one has 12 ribs.
A rescue dog is never to old to learn to be a real dog.
OK. I'll answer my own question From descriptions, P. magnifica has 11-15 ribs (slightly fewer on young plants) and 12-15 spines (again fewer on seedlings). P. warasii has 15-16 ribs and 15-20 spines. There are other more subtle differences in the descriptions but these should suffice for most IDs. P. warasii has often been considered no more than a variety of P. magnifica.
--ian
I guess you'd really be in trouble if you had a plant with 15 ribs and 15 spines!iann wrote:OK. I'll answer my own question From descriptions, P. magnifica has 11-15 ribs (slightly fewer on young plants) and 12-15 spines (again fewer on seedlings). P. warasii has 15-16 ribs and 15-20 spines. There are other more subtle differences in the descriptions but these should suffice for most IDs. P. warasii has often been considered no more than a variety of P. magnifica.
Well on the above plant, I count 12 ribs. Can't really figure the spines, but there seem to be at least 15 if not more??
I think the glaucous coating might even be a more reliable ID trait.
Cuda - can you do a spine count for us?
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
- Brontosaurus
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Re: Notocactus warasii..
Is the preferred scientific name of this one Parodia warasii or Notocactus warasii? Sorry for the silly question.
- mmcavall
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Re: Notocactus warasii..
In the homepage of CactiGuide there is a search field "Search Latin Names". If you search for Notocactus warasii or Parodia warasii (no matter which), the result will be the same: in the left row, the Acepted Name (in this case, Parodia warasii); in the right row, the synonyms (Notocatus warasii and other names).
This means that the most recent taxonomic review (and that the scientific community) consider the correct name as Parodia warasii, and all other previous name once given to this species, as synonyms.
A synonym is not a “wrong” name, since it has been accepted once. But advances in taxonomy and systematics can reveal relationships between species that were not evident before, and because of that, names can be continuously changed, in order to better reflect the actual relationships of the species.
There can be lots of debate about the new propositions. Genera can be proposed by someone to be splited or lumped, and not necessarily all other specialists agree. For this reason, some may prefer to use the “old” name.
Additionally, the use of the “old” name is useful in many situations, because it is more established.
I am new to cacti names so I can’t tell you which one is preferred and effectively used by most of growers and collectors, but I can tell you that, in the strict taxonomic sense, Parodia warasii is the accepted one.
This means that the most recent taxonomic review (and that the scientific community) consider the correct name as Parodia warasii, and all other previous name once given to this species, as synonyms.
A synonym is not a “wrong” name, since it has been accepted once. But advances in taxonomy and systematics can reveal relationships between species that were not evident before, and because of that, names can be continuously changed, in order to better reflect the actual relationships of the species.
There can be lots of debate about the new propositions. Genera can be proposed by someone to be splited or lumped, and not necessarily all other specialists agree. For this reason, some may prefer to use the “old” name.
Additionally, the use of the “old” name is useful in many situations, because it is more established.
I am new to cacti names so I can’t tell you which one is preferred and effectively used by most of growers and collectors, but I can tell you that, in the strict taxonomic sense, Parodia warasii is the accepted one.
Re: Notocactus warasii..
As to Parodia warasii, you can also call it Notocactus warasii or Eriocactus warasii, all are valid names.
There is no such thing as a "preferred scientific name", there are only validly published names. You are free to use the name you prefer as long as it was validly published according to the "Rules" of botanical nomenclature and others can use which name they prefer. However it is useful if we all speak the same, or a similar language when referring to plants so we all understand the plant being discussed. An instance is using common rather than Latin names for plants, which may mean nothing in another country, or even mean a different plant there. That often means using the latest classification available that is popular at the time.
Classification as to where the generic or specific lines are drawn is as much a matter of botanical opinion as provable fact and has frequently changed over the decades and will continue to change into the future. At the moment most seem to be following the Hunt classification from the New Cactus Lexicon (NCL), which was based on an IOS Working Parties deliberations. It is a "lumping" classification, largely based on morphology, being pre DNA Sequencing. Anderson's "The Cactus Family" was a forerunner of The New Cactus Lexicon, published a year or two before using the same IOS classification but which had not yet been worked up to it's final state as in the New Cactus Lexicon.
However now the "chemists" in addition to the botanists have become involved and DNA Sequencing has shown some genera Hunt lumped together in the NCL are the result of parallel ev0lution and arose from different lines, therefore do not belong in the same genus in a phylogenetic classification. One such instance is Aylostera, being historically wrongly lumped into Rebutia as it has been for many years using morphology alone. The plants simply looking similar since they ev0lved in similar habitats. See:-
http://ib.berkeley.edu/courses/ib200a/l ... cation.pdf
If the current classification is supposed to be the one everybody has to accept, then that is probably "Taxonomy of the Cactaceae" by Joel Lode, which was published after the New Cactus Lexicon and supposedly based on the latest DNA research at the time it was published, even though some morphology is still used. See review:-
https://www.cactus-aventures.com/Review ... %20CSJ.pdf
If you want to see all his changes to the New Cactus Lexicon, his synonymy is published online here:-
http://cactus-aventures.com/Taxonomy_of ... errata.pdf
There are however one or two mistakes in the synonymy to that in the final books. Probably why Lode's classification has not received such an acceptance in the "scientific world" is because he did not work at Kew as Hunt did, being an amateur who put in a lot of time studying the plants in habitat and also collating all the latest DNA data published since the NCL..
Another work published since The New Cactus Lexicon is that of Nyfler and Eggli below:-
http://docplayer.org/2656732-A-farewell ... aceae.html
In future we will probably see more changes to the classification of the Cactaceae published online or in electronic form rather than in printed book form, since these often two volume classifications are now becoming expensive to print. Both the NCL and Joel's books cost over £100+ ($125+), even secondhand when out of print.
There is no such thing as a "preferred scientific name", there are only validly published names. You are free to use the name you prefer as long as it was validly published according to the "Rules" of botanical nomenclature and others can use which name they prefer. However it is useful if we all speak the same, or a similar language when referring to plants so we all understand the plant being discussed. An instance is using common rather than Latin names for plants, which may mean nothing in another country, or even mean a different plant there. That often means using the latest classification available that is popular at the time.
Classification as to where the generic or specific lines are drawn is as much a matter of botanical opinion as provable fact and has frequently changed over the decades and will continue to change into the future. At the moment most seem to be following the Hunt classification from the New Cactus Lexicon (NCL), which was based on an IOS Working Parties deliberations. It is a "lumping" classification, largely based on morphology, being pre DNA Sequencing. Anderson's "The Cactus Family" was a forerunner of The New Cactus Lexicon, published a year or two before using the same IOS classification but which had not yet been worked up to it's final state as in the New Cactus Lexicon.
However now the "chemists" in addition to the botanists have become involved and DNA Sequencing has shown some genera Hunt lumped together in the NCL are the result of parallel ev0lution and arose from different lines, therefore do not belong in the same genus in a phylogenetic classification. One such instance is Aylostera, being historically wrongly lumped into Rebutia as it has been for many years using morphology alone. The plants simply looking similar since they ev0lved in similar habitats. See:-
http://ib.berkeley.edu/courses/ib200a/l ... cation.pdf
If the current classification is supposed to be the one everybody has to accept, then that is probably "Taxonomy of the Cactaceae" by Joel Lode, which was published after the New Cactus Lexicon and supposedly based on the latest DNA research at the time it was published, even though some morphology is still used. See review:-
https://www.cactus-aventures.com/Review ... %20CSJ.pdf
If you want to see all his changes to the New Cactus Lexicon, his synonymy is published online here:-
http://cactus-aventures.com/Taxonomy_of ... errata.pdf
There are however one or two mistakes in the synonymy to that in the final books. Probably why Lode's classification has not received such an acceptance in the "scientific world" is because he did not work at Kew as Hunt did, being an amateur who put in a lot of time studying the plants in habitat and also collating all the latest DNA data published since the NCL..
Another work published since The New Cactus Lexicon is that of Nyfler and Eggli below:-
http://docplayer.org/2656732-A-farewell ... aceae.html
In future we will probably see more changes to the classification of the Cactaceae published online or in electronic form rather than in printed book form, since these often two volume classifications are now becoming expensive to print. Both the NCL and Joel's books cost over £100+ ($125+), even secondhand when out of print.