Hard to find cacti...
Hard to find cacti...
I just got an e-mail from Juergen Menzel (Cactus Jordi) regarding Brachycereus. I have/had it listed here on CactiGuide.com as "Not in Cultivation". Since he does have a grafted plant in cultivation, I have to upgrade it to "Extremely Rare" as his is about the only guy I know or have heard about that is growing one.
Anyway, this prompted me to run querry to see what other species I have listed with this status. It turns out there are 21 other species listed as "Not in Cultivation" and 218 that I have listed under "Extremely Rare".
So... I thought I'd post the list here (as a link) and see if any of you will spot any corrections.
Does anyone here grow or know someone who grows the plants listed as "Not in Cultivation"?
Do you see any in the "Extremely Rare" group that are not so rare after all? Or perhaps some that should be moved into the "Not in Cultivation" section because they are just that rare?
Any feedback is appreciated and will make the site more accurate (useful) for everyone.
Here is the list: http://www.cactiguide.com/php/encounterability.php
Daiv
Anyway, this prompted me to run querry to see what other species I have listed with this status. It turns out there are 21 other species listed as "Not in Cultivation" and 218 that I have listed under "Extremely Rare".
So... I thought I'd post the list here (as a link) and see if any of you will spot any corrections.
Does anyone here grow or know someone who grows the plants listed as "Not in Cultivation"?
Do you see any in the "Extremely Rare" group that are not so rare after all? Or perhaps some that should be moved into the "Not in Cultivation" section because they are just that rare?
Any feedback is appreciated and will make the site more accurate (useful) for everyone.
Here is the list: http://www.cactiguide.com/php/encounterability.php
Daiv
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
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Hi Daiv,
I don't see any names that are in these categories that should be switched, but there're some names in other categories that I think should be moved down.
Stenocereus aragonii, Should that be moved to "Rare"? Haven't found a single plant in cultivation (except for the HBG).
What about the real Christmas Cactus/Easter Cactus. Should those be in "Rare" or "Unusual in Collections" rather than "Common Worldwide"? I've only been to one place with S. x buckleyi.
I don't see any names that are in these categories that should be switched, but there're some names in other categories that I think should be moved down.
Stenocereus aragonii, Should that be moved to "Rare"? Haven't found a single plant in cultivation (except for the HBG).
What about the real Christmas Cactus/Easter Cactus. Should those be in "Rare" or "Unusual in Collections" rather than "Common Worldwide"? I've only been to one place with S. x buckleyi.
Again, the "Encounterability" feature is not an absolute description. It is to indicate the chances that the average Joe is going to run into a particular plant.
I'm fine with moving S. aragonii to the "rare" level.
But S. x buckleyi I think should remain under "Common Worldwide". Like Chris says, they aren't in the trade, but they are in homes all over the place. I'd say the U.S. West Coast is probably an exception to that as it is relatively new development and doesn't have the passed down for generations plants available like other areas such as the Midwest, Eastern USA and Europe.
I'm fine with moving S. aragonii to the "rare" level.
But S. x buckleyi I think should remain under "Common Worldwide". Like Chris says, they aren't in the trade, but they are in homes all over the place. I'd say the U.S. West Coast is probably an exception to that as it is relatively new development and doesn't have the passed down for generations plants available like other areas such as the Midwest, Eastern USA and Europe.
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
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I see, I forgot about the "passed down from generation" thing as I was writing down that post.daiv wrote: But S. x buckleyi I think should remain under "Common Worldwide". Like Chris says, they aren't in the trade, but they are in homes all over the place. I'd say the U.S. West Coast is probably an exception to that as it is relatively new development and doesn't have the passed down for generations plants available like other areas such as the Midwest, Eastern USA and Europe.
Yes, I agree with the west coast being relatively new. Most people here don't grow epis or if they do, they don't have a S. x buckleyi.
- Peterthecactusguy
- Posts: 8862
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Re: Hard to find cacti...
I have a couple of plants that aren't very common. Opuntia (Nopalea) hondurensis is not very common. And neither is C. x campii which I got from Corona Cactus. It's the hybrid between C. acanthocarpa and C. bigelovii.
I also have some other rare Opuntia.. O. aurea and hybrids.. O. paraguayensis O. pusilla and O. tomentosa (and O. vaseyi). I guess that it's not easy to get some types of cacti, but they are out there. Give me a couple of years and some of these might become more common.
I have some plants I like more than some of the rare ones I got.
I won't tell my rarest plant.
I also have some other rare Opuntia.. O. aurea and hybrids.. O. paraguayensis O. pusilla and O. tomentosa (and O. vaseyi). I guess that it's not easy to get some types of cacti, but they are out there. Give me a couple of years and some of these might become more common.
I have some plants I like more than some of the rare ones I got.
I won't tell my rarest plant.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
- Glochid Fingers
- Posts: 133
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Re: Hard to find cacti...
Oh come on peter. You just have to tell us. Some of us my not even know that it exists until it is brought to our attention.
It would be rude to the plant to keep it hidden from the world
It would be rude to the plant to keep it hidden from the world
Re: Hard to find cacti...
I have the following plants in cultivation that are listed as extremely rare:
browningia microsperma
cumulopuntia boliviana
maihueniopsis ovata
neowerdermannia vorwerkii (which is a lot more common in europe)
weberbauerocereus rauhii
also, i believe cleistocactus winterii ssp. colademono doesn't belong in this list, I would call it uncommon, maybe
browningia microsperma
cumulopuntia boliviana
maihueniopsis ovata
neowerdermannia vorwerkii (which is a lot more common in europe)
weberbauerocereus rauhii
also, i believe cleistocactus winterii ssp. colademono doesn't belong in this list, I would call it uncommon, maybe
With apologies to the late Professor C. D. Darlington the following misquotation springs to
mind ‘cactus taxonomy is the pursuit of the impossible by the incompetent’ - Fearn & Pearcy, Rebutia (1981)
mind ‘cactus taxonomy is the pursuit of the impossible by the incompetent’ - Fearn & Pearcy, Rebutia (1981)
- Minime8484
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Re: Hard to find cacti...
I agree with Arjen on the Cleistocactus (winteri) colademononsis...seems fairly easy to get a hold of.
I have Pereskia quisqueyana in my collection, and it is sold by Smoley, so it is definitely in cultivation!
Others I have found that are fairly easy for me to get a hold of on your "Extremely Rare" list include:
Cumulopuntia dactylifera - at least in AZ, it is fairly regular at nurseries, plus can be found at online C&S sites occasionally
Cylindropuntia anteojoensis - AZ Cactus Sales has been selling these for years, including online
Grusonia bulbispina - I have seen these for sale regularly in AZ.
I have Pereskia quisqueyana in my collection, and it is sold by Smoley, so it is definitely in cultivation!
Others I have found that are fairly easy for me to get a hold of on your "Extremely Rare" list include:
Cumulopuntia dactylifera - at least in AZ, it is fairly regular at nurseries, plus can be found at online C&S sites occasionally
Cylindropuntia anteojoensis - AZ Cactus Sales has been selling these for years, including online
Grusonia bulbispina - I have seen these for sale regularly in AZ.
Re: Hard to find cacti...
The categories are intended to be loose, I think, and the relative encounterability is in cultivation generally. It is interesting to note that the status of some of these plants does change over time, though. I think when colademononsis first appeared it was very rare indeed.
peterb
peterb
Zone 9
- Peterthecactusguy
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Re: Hard to find cacti...
Yes, My point was that while some plants are listed as rare, they c an be found. The ones Not in cultivation probably exist in a few collections, here and there.. mostly in the areas that they grow in natively.
My rarest plant will remain anonymous.
BTW the Opuntia (Nopalea) hondurensis I got at the Desert Botanical Garden's Spring sale. I didn't know what it was when I bought it. I was like Nopalea, looks like an Opuntia.. hondurensis must be from Honduras. I also knew that I hadn't seen any Opuntia that looked like it.. I don't really care that it's rare, it's a plant, I like plants. I have many common ones that I like more. (BTW I know plants don't have feelings but it's kinda mean, I like them all equally )
My rarest plant will remain anonymous.
BTW the Opuntia (Nopalea) hondurensis I got at the Desert Botanical Garden's Spring sale. I didn't know what it was when I bought it. I was like Nopalea, looks like an Opuntia.. hondurensis must be from Honduras. I also knew that I hadn't seen any Opuntia that looked like it.. I don't really care that it's rare, it's a plant, I like plants. I have many common ones that I like more. (BTW I know plants don't have feelings but it's kinda mean, I like them all equally )
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
Re: Hard to find cacti...
by the way daiv on one species it says "Flower colour unknown" but below it shows a picture of it in full flower
Buying a cactus a day will keep the madness away.
Re: Hard to find cacti...
Regarding the so called Christmas cactus Schlumbergera X buckleyi. It is a hybrid between truncata and russeliana. As I remember the story was that when the latter two were introduced to cultivation in England the cross was made and like most hybrids it was more vigorous than the parents. Shortly after the parents were introduced there was a bad winter in the UK and many of these new tender introductions got wiped out. The hybrid being tougher survived, but unfortunately got confused with one of it's parents S. truncata and was named as Zygocactus truncatus for many decades. The true truncata was originally called "the crab cactus" because it has two points on the ends of the joints like a crabs claw. The rounded end sections on X buckleyi are it's inheritance from S. ruselliana, which unlike truncata does not have the "claws".
However the majority of plants in cultivation with the "claws" are themselves hybrids now and it is very difficult to get hold of authenticated collected material of Schlumbergera truncata. See:-
http://cactus.biology.dal.ca/paulS/chri ... stmas.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Schlu ... usselliana_(Epiphyllum_russellianum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)_Bot._Mag._66._3717._1839.jpg
In fact it is hard to find anything on the Web for truncata claimed to be from habitat. The only pictures I know showing authentic plants from habitat are in The New Cactus Lexicon. That does not mean some plants in cultivation may not be authentic, simply that there are so many hybrids now and very few plants that have the authentication they are from habitat material.
Schlumbergera orssichiana, a more recent discovery, illustrates the difficulty the early cultivators had keeping truncata alive in that it is far more difficult to cultivate than the hard to kill X buckleyi. Unfortunately we may soon have the same problems obtaining authentic material of this as the hybridists have already started on it. Why can't they leave our plants alone and stop polluting the gene pool and go and grow roses or something!
http://cactus-epiphytes.eu/z_page_histo ... ides_2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
With so many amateurs now visiting habitat plants seldom remain rare for long and become available at least as seed, if they don't it's usually because they have little cultural merit for many, or would quickly outgrow their greenhouses in the case of many European collectors. The Galapagean plants are rare because Ecuador does not allow any plants or seed to be collected in case they may be transported between islands and pollute the gene pool on another island.
However the majority of plants in cultivation with the "claws" are themselves hybrids now and it is very difficult to get hold of authenticated collected material of Schlumbergera truncata. See:-
http://cactus.biology.dal.ca/paulS/chri ... stmas.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Schlu ... usselliana_(Epiphyllum_russellianum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)_Bot._Mag._66._3717._1839.jpg
In fact it is hard to find anything on the Web for truncata claimed to be from habitat. The only pictures I know showing authentic plants from habitat are in The New Cactus Lexicon. That does not mean some plants in cultivation may not be authentic, simply that there are so many hybrids now and very few plants that have the authentication they are from habitat material.
Schlumbergera orssichiana, a more recent discovery, illustrates the difficulty the early cultivators had keeping truncata alive in that it is far more difficult to cultivate than the hard to kill X buckleyi. Unfortunately we may soon have the same problems obtaining authentic material of this as the hybridists have already started on it. Why can't they leave our plants alone and stop polluting the gene pool and go and grow roses or something!
http://cactus-epiphytes.eu/z_page_histo ... ides_2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
With so many amateurs now visiting habitat plants seldom remain rare for long and become available at least as seed, if they don't it's usually because they have little cultural merit for many, or would quickly outgrow their greenhouses in the case of many European collectors. The Galapagean plants are rare because Ecuador does not allow any plants or seed to be collected in case they may be transported between islands and pollute the gene pool on another island.
Re: Hard to find cacti...
Hi all - I missed the updates in this post the first go around. I will update the encounterability of the above-mentioned plants. I welcome any/all input on this. Like Peter said, it is to give a general idea, but certainly could never be precise.
Please also post something or e-mail me if you find things that have become uncommon. I think Micranthocereus estevesii is one such plant. Ten years ago it was in every garden center and came up for ID all the time. I can't remember the last time someone posted this plant to get an ID.
Also if you see any errors - such as Rob pointed out, please let me know and I will fix them.
Regarding the S. truncata hybrids... this brings up a different discussion altogether. Would it not be more accurate to call them "selections" vs. "hybrids"? In other words, the S. truncata are all crossed with other S. truncata to emphasize a given color. In other words, someone kept selecting a lighter and lighter flower color until eventually they had a white flower. Not like S. xbuckleyi which is a hybrid cross of two different species.
Please also post something or e-mail me if you find things that have become uncommon. I think Micranthocereus estevesii is one such plant. Ten years ago it was in every garden center and came up for ID all the time. I can't remember the last time someone posted this plant to get an ID.
Also if you see any errors - such as Rob pointed out, please let me know and I will fix them.
Regarding the S. truncata hybrids... this brings up a different discussion altogether. Would it not be more accurate to call them "selections" vs. "hybrids"? In other words, the S. truncata are all crossed with other S. truncata to emphasize a given color. In other words, someone kept selecting a lighter and lighter flower color until eventually they had a white flower. Not like S. xbuckleyi which is a hybrid cross of two different species.
All Cacti are succulents, but not all succulents are Cacti
- Peterthecactusguy
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- Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:49 am
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Re: Hard to find cacti...
Daiv, that is a good point about S. truncata. It actually really isn't a hybrid like S. x buckleyi is which is from S. truncata x S. rosseliana (sp, I can't remember). This year I got a creamish colored flower with pink pistols/stamen from the grocery store of an S. truncata. There are so many different colors, but I think that is true, they really aren't true hybrids. As for rare plants, I know that it's possible to find them. I have some that are pretty rare. I don't really care how rare some plants are tho, because I grow what I like for spines and the look of the plant. That is how I ended up with the O. (or Nopalea) hondurensis) The flower color of Opuntia hondurensis is red I think their is a picture of the flower. I can send an email if you want so you remember hahaha.
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.