Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

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Robb
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by Robb »

I'd imagine that success in germinating these cryptocarpic species requires similar things. With that in mind this topic http://cactiguide.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... esae+seeds may be of some use. The member seemed to have worked out a fairly successful method for germinating M. theresae, so I imagine that it could be applied to more rare species like bertholdii.
Buying a cactus a day will keep the madness away.
DaveW
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by DaveW »

If they are cryptocarpic (= hidden fruit) how did you get them out of the body, or know the fruit had set, does it protrude at all? Theres a good picture of a cryptocarpic fruit after the body was sliced in two with M. luethyi if you scroll down to the bottom of the link below, so obviously not easy to extract the seed, hence seldom offered as hardly a commercial proposition for seedsmen.

http://www.llifle.com/Encyclopedia/CACT ... ia_luethyi

It has been suggested with some of these cryptocarpic fruits that the seed is not in fact expelled, but only germinates in the remains of the stem when it dies. Hence the suggestion the seed might need to be aged before germination. However some plants do produce seed that germinates over a period of time, some will germinate immediately, but then you get a succession of germination over a period of years. A way the plant spreads the risk of all the seed germinating at once then getting wiped out in a bad season.
Jenya
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by Jenya »

Actually it was easy to get the fruit and seeds. I just had to pick it out carefully with tweezers and the fruit just popped out.
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Jenya
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by Jenya »

mdpillet wrote:
Aiko wrote:
mdpillet wrote:No more difficult than M. theresae in my opinion! Much more beautiful grown hard on own root.
Have you tried it already?
Yes, someone in town has two grafted clones which have been heavily propagated already. I degrafted mine and rooted them. New growth is now much less bloated. I hope to have seed next year.
Are you talking about theresae or bertholdii? I've heard that bertholdii is not that easy to be degrafted and rooted.
I'd like to hear more about it, because one of mine is offsetting more and more.
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mdpillet
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by mdpillet »

Jenya wrote:
mdpillet wrote:
Aiko wrote:
Have you tried it already?
Yes, someone in town has two grafted clones which have been heavily propagated already. I degrafted mine and rooted them. New growth is now much less bloated. I hope to have seed next year.
Are you talking about theresae or bertholdii? I've heard that bertholdii is not that easy to be degrafted and rooted.
I'd like to hear more about it, because one of mine is offsetting more and more.
M. bertholdii. Didn't do anything special. Some offsets will root, others won't - way of life.
DaveW
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by DaveW »

I understand Mammillaria bertholdii can also be propagated from grafted tubercles. Rather like this video, though I expect it would work with round stocks too provided you place the tubercle on the vascular bundle itself and not in the centre of the stock, so missing them. On Opuntia pads the vascular ring is in a flat oval, whereas it is a circle on round stocks, which is why he places the tubercles alternatively off centre on the Opuntia pad to contact the vascular bundles.

Caution, his Opuntia pads seem to be virtually glochidless, or he has "cast iron fingers", therefore I would use tweezers to pick up and hold Opuntia pads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA3ZIjHGKZ0

Like Jenya I am hoping mine on it's graft will offset and I can root one down, but have not had much luck trying to root down Mammillaria luethyi or Aztekium ritteri which shrivel and dry up before rooting. You say some offsets root and some do not? What percentage of success were you getting?
Jenya
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by Jenya »

Well, I rooted M. luethyi pretty easy. As for bertholdii I've heard that a wound surface of the offset is too large, and also you can easy damage the maternal plant. And really the offsets connected very tightly to the stem.

Actually, I recently had such bad experience with Aztekium valdezii. I took one offset just to find out that the maternal plant got just huge wound where before was the offset. I used activated carbon for disinfection. Hope everything will be fine.
Fatich
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by Fatich »

One of my bertholdii's stock roted and i degrafted it.
I couldnt manage to root it and it died. Maybe it was still small to root.
A ukranian seller has Mammillaria hernandezii seeds, i am thinking to buy some and try my chance.
warabi
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by warabi »

Hi there,
in oktober 2018 sowed 10 seeds of M.Bertholdii (Gerardo CZ), 2 seeds sprouted and I repotted them in May 2019, keeping the pot with the original seeds dry, then moist again from okt 2019 on, which resulted in 3 more seedlings coming up. I don’t like grafted plants that much, so kept them on their own roots and managed to keep them all alive. They grow extremely slow though, the first ones 1 1/2 y later barely 2-3mm and still having their toddler spines, no visible tubercles. I also had some M. Luetheyi seeds, same experience, originally 5/10, later on 2 extra, but these,though still small (5-10mm), clearly recognizable as M. Luetheyi.
Anyone experience to grow further on as to expectations when they’re gonna start to increase size, watering, exposition, soil, etc.?
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2018 seedling
2018 seedling
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latest seedlings in original pot still
latest seedlings in original pot still
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Aloinopsis
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by Aloinopsis »

warabi wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:23 am Hi there,
in oktober 2018 sowed 10 seeds of M.Bertholdii (Gerardo CZ), 2 seeds sprouted and I repotted them in May 2019, keeping the pot with the original seeds dry, then moist again from okt 2019 on, which resulted in 3 more seedlings coming up. I don’t like grafted plants that much, so kept them on their own roots and managed to keep them all alive. They grow extremely slow though, the first ones 1 1/2 y later barely 2-3mm and still having their toddler spines, no visible tubercles. I also had some M. Luetheyi seeds, same experience, originally 5/10, later on 2 extra, but these,though still small (5-10mm), clearly recognizable as M. Luetheyi.
Anyone experience to grow further on as to expectations when they’re gonna start to increase size, watering, exposition, soil, etc.?
Thank you for this update. I sowed Mammillaria theresae also in late 2018 and nothing happened for at least six months. In April of last year I noticed a single green blob. I resolved to leave it alone in the bag, but by June it was gone.

The bag has sat undisturbed until March 5th 2020. That's when I took it out, let it dry for 3 days, then soaked it in rain water with added vinegar. I added a tablespoon to half a gallon of water because it's been so long I figure I've little to lose.

Well guess what...now I have three little green blobs! I don't know if it was the drying-rewetting, the super acidic water, or both.

Now we wait.

I personally wonder if they may need more acid rain not only to germinate, but for the first couple years.

How do botanical gardens grow this series of Mammillaria (bertholdii, saboae, luethyi, theresae)? I'm interested to know their cultural practices.
warabi
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by warabi »

I debagged the seedlings pretty quick as I had some fungus coming up (and was also very curious), then watered them once a week with distilled water
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one of the first M.Luetheyi , repotted
one of the first M.Luetheyi , repotted
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the second upcomers in the original pot, also doing fine it seems and definetely faster growing than the M.Berholdii, stopped watering them in Nov, now once a week with distilled water and 1/4 strength regular cactus feed
the second upcomers in the original pot, also doing fine it seems and definetely faster growing than the M.Berholdii, stopped watering them in Nov, now once a week with distilled water and 1/4 strength regular cactus feed
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Aloinopsis
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by Aloinopsis »

Why distilled? Just curious.
warabi
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by warabi »

Cause when I used regular tap, or even mineral water it builded up quite fast an evaporation crust on top of the soil, though I only use mineral soil consisting of small pieces of granite/lava/ perlite,... With rainwater I was afraid of getting fungus and moulds, maybe I’m wrong though.
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Aloinopsis
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by Aloinopsis »

Oh. I use rainwater for almost everything. It starts out lower pH and softer than everything else. It probably varies based upon where you live though.
DaveW
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Re: Mammillaria bertholdii from seeds - tips

Post by DaveW »

My two grafted Mammillaria bertholdii after growing well for two years on grafts did a "Mam luethyi" on me and dried up on their stocks over winter in the house. Unfortunately they were tucked away in a corner behind other plants so I did not notice until too late. Just to be awkward a grafted M. luethyi came through the winter OK under similar conditions. I think the problem is either that differential shrinkage of the stock and scion over winter breaks the graft union, or the scions need much warmer conditions in winter than the stock does?

I want to try both Mam bertholdii and M. luethyi on their own roots since they are tuberous rooted. Regarding maturity, these are small plants in nature therefore don't expect rapid growth or large final plants. A plant is fully mature when it flowers no matter how small it is, it may still gain size but all nature demands is it is able to flower and set seed to pass on it's genes to the next generation. These plants are little gems that stay small. If you must have bloated football sized cacti they are not for you since a very large plant would be completely out of character.

You can see from the link below the flower is larger than the small plant body in habitat.

https://mammillaria.net/index.php/mamm- ... tm-2014-08
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