Germinating M. theresae seeds

dvg · Post by **dvg** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:26 pm

I'm going to again try to germinate some Mammillaria theresae seed.

So far, I haven't been able to get these seeds to germinate for me, but I want to finally get over the hump with these seeds that known for being one of the trickier species to germinate.
I've done some reading up on the subject and have found that these seeds have Phenolic Compounds in their seed coats that inhibit germination.

It is believed that these inhibiting agents are water soluble, and that these chemical compounds are washed away after subsequent and sustained precipitation in their natural habitat.

I've heard that older seed, up to seven or eight years old, germinates far better than fresh seed does.

Some growers pot up the seed and continue to refresh the planting media every six to eight weeks, after a drying period, until the seeds finally germinate.

I've read that these seeds respond better to a slightly acid pH, and that might be because they grow in moss covered rocky regions in Mexico.

A night time temperature drop is likely to give better germination results is another thing I came across in my reading.

Another grower even recommended that I try GA3 to try to stimulate these seeds out of their dormancy and speed up their germination time.

So I was wondering if any of you growers that have had success with M. theresae germination would be willing to share the techniques that you employed to achieve your favorable results.

dvg

TimN · Post by **TimN** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:10 am

Never done it, but everything you write makes sense to me. The only thing I would add is find out if it likes bottom/soil heat or not. You never know! With something so particular it might want cold feet and warm up top.

I wouldn't start with the cold soil method, only if you get really desperate.

dvg · Post by **dvg** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:44 am

Haha Tim, one of the reports I read called for bottom heat with a night time temperature drop.

I might dig some old seeds out of the fridge and get this party started tomorrow, before I get cold feet with this project.

dvg

dvg · Post by **dvg** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:01 am

So I went into my seed fridge and dug out 50 M. theresae seed, all of them from Mesa Garden.

Thirty of those seed were sent to me over three years ago, so they are not exactly fresh seed, but they have always been kept refridgerated since I received them.

I probably still have a few hundred more M. theresae seeds at the very least from Koehres Kakteen still in the fridge. So with this amount of seed, I have enough seed stock to try some different germination techniques.

But for now I have the fifty seeds soaking in distilled water overnight on a seedling heatmat.

dvg

vlani · Post by **vlani** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:07 am

From what I hear no GA but succinic acid helps to break seeds dormancy. You may not find specific data on Mam. teresae, but I'd definitely add it to the list

vbueno · Post by **vbueno** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:33 am

I've gotten good fresh seeds germinate. I have a few hours of soaking in warm water
before sowing.
Greetings
Vicent

peterb · Post by **peterb** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:22 pm

Are Mam theresae fruit deeply embedded in the stem of the plant? If so, I wonder what the advantage of that is? Could that have something to do with difficulty germinating the seed? I vaguely remember someone speculating that a lot of theresae seed is just not viable, and that's why it doesn't germinate (of course). Any ideas about that?

peterb

Post by **CoronaCactus** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:02 pm

peterb wrote:Are Mam theresae fruit deeply embedded in the stem of the plant?

Yes, and difficult to remove! I managed digging some out 2 years ago, but haven't sown them yet. Same with M. hernandezii. These germinated with no special treatment.

I remember reading that in habitat, the plants are generally solitary and what might look like a clump/cluster is usually several individuals. When the seed is ready they just spillout at the base of the plant. If nature does not take the seed elsewhere, it'll germinate next to mom.

dvg · Post by **dvg** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:50 pm

To the 2 Vs, thank you both for your tips.

Peterb, M. theresae is a crytocapic cacti, and makes cryptocarpic fruit, which as you mentioned ripens inside the plant body, with the seed sometimes not being released until the plant dies.

M. theresae link 1

M. theresae link 2

Doug
dvg

dvg · Post by **dvg** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:09 pm

Okay, so I ended up soaking 70 M. theresae seeds, all of them from Mesa Garden.

20 seeds arrived to me this year, 30 seeds were from 3 years ago and the other 20 seeds were from 4 years ago.

And I decided to treat these seeds differently than I've treated this species seed in the past.

Usually, I'll sow seeds in small pots and place the pots into sealed ziplock bags and keep those under lights in our basement.

But this time, because I wanted to keep track of the seeds better, I decided to sow these in a paper towel, enclosed in a zip lock bag.

And to keep their growing conditions slightly acidic, taking into account that these cacti grow in among and on moss covered rocks, I placed rehydrated dead Chilean sphagnum moss inside the ziplock bags, (all three of them) and under the papertowel, using the paper towel as a barrier between the moss and the seeds.

These bags are sitting on a heating pad during the day and moved to a cooler place at night.

If these seeds germinate in these conditions, so much the better, but if some do and some don't, then I'll dry out the reluctant seeds after two or three weeks and start the process all over again at a later date.

Hopefully after a few cycles of this treatment, more and more seeds will be coaxed out of their chemical induced dormancies.

I wasn't able to locate any succinic acid, but have phoned around looking for it and might get some yet.

And when I can get my hands on some, I'd like to give that a shot as well.

dvg

paulzie32 · Post by **paulzie32** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:45 am

Boy, I was really considering buying some seeds, but they seem so complicated. I may just have to buy a plant

dvg · Post by **dvg** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:07 am

paulzie32 wrote:Boy, I was really considering buying some seeds, but they seem so complicated. I may just have to buy a plant

Hi Paulzie32,

Don't let this post dissuade you from trying to grow this species from seed.

I may be making more of an issue of this, than it actually is.

I've started many species of cacti from seed in the past, but was never able to get any of this species to germinate for me.

But other growers have been able to start them from seed, with success.

The reason I started this thread was to both share some of my ideas and procedures and also to learn about other grower's success with germinating these seeds.

Oh, and that's a great avatar you have by the way!

Doug
dvg

Peterthecactusguy · Post by **Peterthecactusguy** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:15 am

Some seeds are so easy to get to grow. Plants like Ferocactus are very easy to grow from seed. They grow so well sometimes they germinate at the base of the parent plants.

paulzie32 · Post by **paulzie32** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:46 am

Oh I know that Peter, I grow a lot from seed... I was referring to buying some seeds of M. theresae in particular. I recently placed and received an order of seeds from someone and was toying with the idea of getting some of them (M. theresae) but passed this time. And if they don't germinate just putting them in a sterile pot, I may just get a seedling from someone

And DVG, thanks but I can't really take credit for making the avatar... I saw it and copied it. On the M. theresae seeds, I'll wait to see what kind of success you have before passing judgement

dvg · Post by **dvg** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:18 pm

Okay Paulzie, I'll let you know how these seeds do.

I checked in on them today, but didn't see anything happening yet, but it has only been three days.

dvg