help with Lithops care after germination..

[KittieKAT]

In the summer it seemed easier to grow these guys but im having a hard time getting the majority of them to survive after germination(?) They just shriveled up and die in the cute little green mushroom stage..am i over watering..under watering? Are the lights to close? Or ....

I can't seem to figure it out and now I'm pretty scared to have the children do anything with them at the moment in fear we'll loose the whole crop ofthe ones that germinated!

Any one have winter growing lithops care instructions or some kinda help, I'm sure I'm not they only one that's had these issues before.

Thanks

[AaronR]

How do you have them set up at the moment?

[KittieKAT]

They are under a grow system until i move to use my bigger light system, so they were under a 100watt cf day light
Now they are currently under a 60-80watt plant light about 4 inches over the containers.
They germinate great, and then they slowly die off Just shrivle up before they get any bigger or better formed
I water them but that either seems to make them shrivle up and die or not watering them makes them shrivle up and die
I don't kno what's going on never really had this problem when growing them before but that was in the summer a while ago.
Im kinda worried to let the kids do anything with them at the moment in fear they will all die and then it will take forever to get more real or viable seeds donated

[iann]

Probably too wet, but likely due to the soil as much as you adding water. Maybe also too warm. They can stand quite a bit of heat during the day but really need to be cooler at night. I start nearly all my Lithops under lights in winter, at about 70-80F by day and 50-60F at night. Once they have germinated, they
're unlikely to die by being too dry although it might slow them down a lot. Even at their best they will only very slowly expand for the first few months, before finally moving to a second set of leaves (actually the first true leaves).

[AaronR]

Probably too wet, but likely due to the soil as much as you adding water. Maybe also too warm. They can stand quite a bit of heat during the day but really need to be cooler at night. I start nearly all my Lithops under lights in winter, at about 70-80F by day and 50-60F at night. Once they have germinated, they
're unlikely to die by being too dry although it might slow them down a lot. Even at their best they will only very slowly expand for the first few months, before finally moving to a second set of leaves (actually the first true leaves).

This is good info, thanks, I'm about to give a mix bag of lithops a shot in a few days as well. Do you use a mix that differs from your standard cat litter / jon innes mix?

Also, K.Kat, did you bag them? I'd guess not if you're watering? I've read humidity is suggested but am unsure for how long they tolerate it?

Do you have a digital thermometer in there to gauge the temps? I have a 4x4ft T5 fluoro that will heat up the air above my grow table from the rooms 68* up to 80* and it's a bit over 2ft from the table top. At 1ft it's in the 100* range if I don't have a fan blowing. Wattage is a bit higher than yours but when it was new last winter and I scorched my first flat of chilis quite quickly and had to start over..

I hope you get these sorted KK

[KittieKAT]

Yea i been moving them back and forth from my warm room during the day 75°-85° under 60w plant light
To a cooler room of 45°-50° at night under a 60w plant light.

They do have covers on the tops of the containers either plastic wrap or a snap and seal clear container top, i only water a little once every week or 2. They were in my seed propergator when germinating but they started to do the same thing as the ones I'm growing now without it.
I haven't watered them in a while thinking maybe i am watering to much but it's still happening (??) Im soo lost!

[iann]

If you water then they shouldn't be covered. 100% humidity or wet soil, but not both. I leave my well-sterilised Lithops pots covered for several weeks after germination, but it is perhaps safer to uncover them promptly.

I still suspect your soil is unsuitable and nothing you do will stop the deaths one they've started. Still, light at night? That doesn't sound right. Dark at night would be a much better idea.

[KittieKAT]

The light is on at night synced up to when the sun outside turns dark then the light is turned off.
I've tried a variety of different soils. Sand and C&S mix, pure C&S mix, pure sand, C&S mix W/ perlite and sand, C&S mix and perlite mixed with sand and pumice/lava/turface, c&s mix and perlite And sand and pearl stones, pure lave turface, pumice only, C&S MIX AND perlite and sand and Pearl stones, c&s mix and turface/leave/pumice.....ect...etc..etc.. when i water the Pots i leave the cover off Then return it on later

[iann]

You seem stuck on this idea of covering the plants. Don't. Your Lithops are not going to dehydrate. Rot maybe, but a newly sprouted Lithops seedling will last for many weeks, probably months, in dry soil. They seem to do OK if kept covered in relatively sterile conditions, but exposing them and then covering them up to incubate is asking for trouble.

Next step, get yourself some DE granules (cat litter, oil-dri, etc). They have the perfect combination of water retentiveness and aeration for Lithops. C&S mix is bad for cacti and just horrible for Lithops. Saned is too dense in a pot, sand and pearl stones hardly any better. Pumice/turface is closer, but it should form the majority of the mix, not just a few bits scattered in the pot. Perlite can do the same, but not nice to work with.

[KittieKAT]

The reason i keep the covers on without attaching them was because they were withering/shrivling up more and also i was worried about pests like flies cause I've had them eat trays of seeds before they could germinate, i haven't seen any lately so i guess i could just take the covers all the way off instead of Just letting them sit on the top of the containers without being secured down.
I've tried sowing seeds on course material (cat litter,perlite,lava,pumice.turface stone..etc..etc) i didn't cover the seeds with anything i watered them from the bottom in a tray and put them under the light..ect..ect... two weeks passed didn't see anything happening took the top completely off and waited. ..still nothing...thought the seeds may be bad - tried sum left over seeds that c&D donated to me and the kids an. Did the same still NOTHING. Planted some of them in sand and pumice/turface and lava rock mix and BAM! In 2 days i have them popping up everywhere!!!

During my trials and errors o have found the mixes that contained sand to work better then any of they other ones, idk why but they do.
I think its cause the sand stays nice and moist like they need to germinate as long as the top is on, once you take the top off ot dries really fast. They are still at the stage where they want to be a little moist - and i think im rushing them to fast into being like older lithops..
But I'm not sure, and its hard to figure out of its too much or to little water
Iann master of mesembs I'm sure YOU have Dealt with this debate before, do u kno what the difference in between rotting lithop sprouts and dried out lithop sprouts?

[AaronR]

Maybe stating the obvious here but I haven't seen you mention it yet.. Did you slowly acclimate them to the air or did you just pop the top on and off here and there? I don't know how fast C&S respond to this but I know my capsicum sprouts will wither within an hour from that kind of shock..

You could also always put a very thin couple mm layer of fine substrate on top while maintaining a through and through DE mix below perhaps?

[iann]

There is no such thing as a dried out Lithops sprout, only rotted ones.

[KittieKAT]

I just un hinged the top didn't take it all the way off for a while, but i think i finally found out why they keep shrivling up, the other person i live with Been turning the hobo heater on in the day room then turning it off when its like 100° in their. .
Grrrr. I found that out by finally removing the cover after opening the bag for a few days of the mysteries seeds that were growing an i walked in there as the heat was blasting and whatever was growing was ALL dried up and dead
I literally can't win!