CITES

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peterb
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CITES

Post by peterb »

Has anyone ever had plants confiscated because they tried to import them and they got stopped at customs?

Interesting thread on another forum about CITES and a forum member's experience trying to follow all the steps yet still getting his plants confiscated.

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Saxicola
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Re: CITES

Post by Saxicola »

There were two CITES threads going and I forgot I posted in both and didn't notice how that one took off. I may wade back into it when I have the time to read all the replies carefully, though I don't want to risk pissing anyone off. However, it is inaccurate to suggest he did things correctly and they got confiscated anyway. For those not familiar with the story, someone ordered an Agave victoria-reginae cultivar from an Indonesian seller. He demanded the seller include a Phytosanitary Certificate, which he did but it was hidden at the bottom of the box. The guys plants were confiscated for no phyto, then when that got straightened out they realized it was a CITES plant lacking CITES permits.

I will give him credit for wanting to do things properly, but where he failed was in not taking the time to learn what the proper procedures were. I think he didn't even do the import procedures correctly if the plants were NOT CITES. As I understand it he placed an order and requested a Phyto, which was smart. However, I don't think he applied for an import permit here in the USA and I'm certain he did not send the bright yellow and green label that comes with the import permit to the seller to stick on the outside of the box. He might have gotten away with it if the plants weren't CITES (and the shipper put the phyto in the top part of the box), but it still wouldn't have been truly legal without the import permit and the label on the box.

It is very easy to look up what plants are on CITES, and while it isn't the easiest process in the world to navigate, anyone doing international trade in plants needs to know if their plant is on the list and if so how you go about doing things legally. I guess what I'm saying is that if he had gotten an import permit, a USDA permit to import protected plants, and a Fish and Wildlife Service CITES import permit, and his seller provided the Phyto AND a CITES export permit from Indonesia then those plants would have cleared customs and he'd be growing them now.

It is a completely valid subject to discuss if the process for getting these permits is too complicated and unnecessarily bureaucratic, but if you choose not to follow the procedures (or are ignorant of them) it isn't really fair to claim it is their fault you didn't get the plants.

I say this as someone that is going to be doing import and export of CITES plants as part of the nursery I plan to establish, and as someone that wishes the procedures were simpler, especially for export. However, what business thinks the government regulations they have to deal with are simple and logical? They never are, but either you play the game and jump through the hoops or you risk getting in trouble for not following procedure.
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Peterthecactusguy
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Re: CITES

Post by Peterthecactusguy »

I shipped a few pads of local AZ Cylindropuntia to Europe and they arrived safe and sound. I declared them as Cactus Pads and worth $5 dollars. No issues and they are still alive as far as I know. That being said I doubt I would try and send something that is rare overseas in case it was confiscated.. mostly because I would hate for it to get destroyed.

As for Cites stuff, being 100% honest I don't understand the steps I would need to take. I know how to get an AZ permit, if I need one, but that is all. And that is time consuming and a pain in the jerk. How Dare AZ say they own plants that I have grown for years....
Here's to you, all you insidious creatures of green..er I mean cacti.
DaveW
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Re: CITES

Post by DaveW »

The CITES procedure is so bureaucratic, slow and expensive most British dealers now simply refuse to send plants out of the European Union. Yet we can send them anywhere within the EU without documentation however as it is classed the same as sending within a single county. A little stupid is it not I can send plants to Malta from the UK easily, but not to the USA.

http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/index_en.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think I agree with the BBC that CITES has failed in it's purpose and had it's day as it has become too politicised. Farmers can grub up plants in many countries, spray them with herbicide or burn them, but if anybody tries to rescue them without the required paperwork they are demonised.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8606011.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
peterb
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Re: CITES

Post by peterb »

CITES is an agreement specifically on restricting the *international trade* of endangered species. In this regard, it may or may not have been effective. But I think it is important to remember what it is intended to regulate and restrict. It is not really a conservation measure, per se.

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7george
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Re: CITES

Post by 7george »

Yes, I had a box of cacti from Europe once undelivered. Our custom agents toss em in the trash with proud of fulfilled duty. Next time the shipment passed because we changed the tag to "home plants" instead of cacti.
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