New here and need help.

Anything relating to Succulents that doesn't fit in another category should be posted under General.
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forests-of-fire
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New here and need help.

Post by forests-of-fire »

Long story short: I bought a teapot from an antique shop about a month ago with succulents in it -- from my best guess, 2 jade plants, a pachyphytum hookeri and a hen-and-chick. I didn't know that it didn't have a hole in the bottom for drainage until I got home and they, of course, had a no return policy. ](*,)

I tried to keep from overwatering, but I've lost the hookeri and am on the way to losing my other plants. I'm trying to figure out how to either save the plants (I know, not likely w/o a drain hole) or propagate some of the leaves, the chick that had fallen off my hen, and a sprout with a tiiiiny root that I managed to salvage from the hookeri.

I also picked up a couple other plants at a nursery -- another hen-and-chick, and a lithrops -- and I'd like to figure out how to keep from losing them.

I'm currently planning on using Miracle-Gro cactus soil for my clippings, but I think it's too light on the perlite, so I'm planning on getting more to add to it when I get paid. (I'm on disability - get paid 1st and 3rd.)

Would it be a good idea to just snip the plants I have and try to re-root them or should I repot them? One of my jades is really tall, and there's plenty of space for me to snip it and make it into a cutting.
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C And D
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Re: New here and need help.

Post by C And D »

You can always drill holes in the bottom of any pot.
I drill extra holes if I think a pot doesn't have good enough drainage.

Add a lot of pumice or perlite to the Potting soil mix, at least 50%

and put the Lithops in a small pot

You will learn a lot by reading the posts of all the other people here
Check out our plant and seed lists
http://www.CandDplants.com

Craig and Denise Fry
forests-of-fire
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Re: New here and need help.

Post by forests-of-fire »

Yeah, I'm going to drill a hole in the pot when I get paid and can afford a diamond bit. Unfortunately, I'll probably have to take the plants and soil out because you have to use a constant stream of water to keep the bit from heating up too much and the last thing the poor things need is more water. :/ If their roots are looking too bad, I might trim them and move them to a completely different pot.

oh, good. I couldn't figure out what ratio to use and the internet's information is all over the place. But I was leaning towards a simple 1:1 mix of soil and perlite. Should I add anything else?

The litrops is currently in the 1 1/2" pot that it came in. I wasn't planning on repotting it any time soon, since it's got a bit of space, but it's good to know that was the right plan.

I think I'm going to switch to giving them a quick spritz of water near the roots. My mister sucks and only gives a stream of water, so it'll be relatively concentrated. But I can give them a LOT less water that way, I think. How often should I spray them?
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leland
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Re: New here and need help.

Post by leland »

A diamond bit would be nice, but I just use general purpose (usually labeled high speed) for metal and masonry bits for clay and brad point or high speed for plastic. Brad points are easier to use on plastic because the point in the middle prevents wandering of the bit. On the clay and metal pots, have a container of water handy to frequently dip the bit to keep it from overheating.

The only thing I might buy a diamond blade for is ceramic pottery, but I would ask at the flooring section of a hardware store to see what hey would recommend.
forests-of-fire
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Re: New here and need help.

Post by forests-of-fire »

The teapot is a ceramic teapot, so I'd need to use a diamond blade. Plus it's an antique. I'd rather increase my chances of not breaking it by going for the best bit I can use.
iann
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Re: New here and need help.

Post by iann »

1 1/2" is a tiny pot rather than a small one ;) I would suggest repotting, just because the soil it is in now is likely to be very poor. Not good poor, but root-strangling, soggy one minute, concrete the next poor . A 2" pot isn't going to kill a Lithops, but the wrong soil will. Miracle-Gro is really the wrong soil, but at the very least pad it out so there's more perlite/pumice/whatever than soil. A sandy loam would be better, even yard soil if it doesn't have too much clay in it.
--ian
forests-of-fire
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Re: New here and need help.

Post by forests-of-fire »

Actually, the soil on my nursery plants looks really nice to me, though I'm totally aware that I'm not an expert. :) But it's about 50/50 gravel and soil. Bit more soil than I want, but worlds better than the Miracle-Gro and the plants seem to be doing pretty good. The roots on the lithrops are a bit thin, but it's only got 2 leaves so I think it's something that was recently propagated. I even found a surprise leaf in with my hen and chick that already has a few small roots.

If I really need to repot my lithrops, I'll probably move my new hen-and-chick to one of my 6" pots with one of my leaves for propagation. Then I'll move the lithrops to the pot my hen-and-chick is currently in. I think it's 4", so there'll be room for the lithrops to grow.

Yeah, I realize now Miracle-Gro is the wrong soil. :oops: I realized that when I opened it up and saw how little perlite it had. If I had known it had so little perlite, I would've never bought it. -sigh- I just couldn't figure out what type of DIY soil to use. Some said to use moss, perlite and soil -- but each recipe had them in different proportions. Some said to use pine bark, sand, perlite, and soil. Others had even more complicated "recipes". The Miracle-Gro sounded good at the time, especially since I'm on disability and can't afford to try out 67103745 different soil recipes or buy handmade soil online.

Is it just the perlite to soil ratio that makes Miracle-Gro a crappy soil or is there something else wrong with it? I know it has Miracle-Gro plant food in it, but most of the sites I read mentioned using diluted amounts of fertilizer, so I thought it'd be okay. :(

I'm probably going to end up using 2 bags of perlite to 1 of the soil mix. I'd throw some sand in, but I'm not sure where I could get smaller amounts of sand -- I really, really don't need 50 lbs. of sand! Would any type of non-kinetic play sand work?

Using the soil from my "yard" isn't an option. I live in an apartment complex and who knows what the landscapers use on it.
iann
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Re: New here and need help.

Post by iann »

Lithops only have two leaves :) Anything more would be bad, except for a period in late winter and spring where they grow another pair of leaves and lose the old one. Eventually it might double up to more than one head and sometimes you can get a clump.

Lithops roots are, mostly, very thin. That's one reason why they need a fairly dense soil, not something fluffy (I'm sure there are other reasons too). They should have a fairly sturdy "taproot" maybe an inch or two long that is permanent, but the fine roots that grow from it are temporary and die off after they've sucked up all the water. Often you'll repot and there is just this little stump, then other times you'll find a whole mass of roots filling the pot. You can grow Lithops in a 4" pot, but really it is too big for most situations. If you had a big example of a big species, and maybe if you lived in the desert, that's a good pot size. Otherwise 2"-3" is plenty for a single young plant. At best a pot that is too big will literally make the leaves explode from taking up too much water. At worst it will just rot.

Sounds like the nursery used sensible soil? Maybe they grow their own plants? A lot of places buy in succulents from wholesalers and they are frequently grown in almost pure peat. It works well in controlled conditions for getting plants from seed to sale size, but is extremely difficult to keep a plant alive in when you get it home. It is surprising how few places have a clue about sensible soil mixes for succulents. For big leafy ones, a peat-based mix can be good, but still with lots of some coarse material. Perlite is a nice cheap material you can add, but most people eventually look for alternatives because it is nasty stuff, it floats to the top and blows away, or turns green. For more xeric succulents like desert cacti and Lithops, peat is not a good base. It holds too much water when it is wet, then becomes water repellent when it is completely dry. For some reason it also seems to encourage diseases and pests in the roots, possibly because it slowly breaks down and reacts especially with hard water. Bark is slightly better, coir maybe better still although I haven't tried it.

Don't add sand to the mix, not play sand anyway. If you can get a really coarse grit sand, that might be OK. Sand plus peat seems to be the worst of all worlds. I think peat is only barely acceptable because it is so fluffy even though it holds so much water. Add sand and it stops being fluffy and strangles the roots. Coarse grit sands, or fine alpine grit (1/8" is good) work well for opening out regular loam soil, but no so good with peat which they just squash down. Stick with perlite if Miracle Gro is all you have. Pumice is nicer to work with but not easy to find in most places. Or maybe just stay with the nursery mix. Bulking it out with some perlite, or even a bit of the Miracle Gro, will be fine.
--ian
forests-of-fire
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Re: New here and need help.

Post by forests-of-fire »

Oops! I thought that lithrops had multiple clusters leaves normally. :lol:

I haven't gotten a look at the lithrops' roots, but once I figure out WTF my final soil mix for it will be, I'll take a good look when changing the soil.
At best a pot that is too big will literally make the leaves explode from taking up too much water. At worst it will just rot.
Good to know. I'd like to keep my lithrops alive. :lol:
It is surprising how few places have a clue about sensible soil mixes for succulents.
Not for me! I have a chinchilla and I know how often exotic "experts" can be way, way off when it comes to how to take care of chins. It doesn't surprise me that people have the same difficulty with "exotic" plants.

What would be a good substitute for perlite?

Ugh. Definitely sounds like peat isn't a good thing to put lithrops in. I'll see if I can get a hold of something better and I'll keep watering it with bottled water. Our water is so hard that it's not even funny.
Stick with perlite if Miracle Gro is all you have. Or maybe just stay with the nursery mix. Bulking it out with some perlite, or even a bit of the Miracle Gro, will be fine.
At this point, I'm very tempted to ask the nursery if I can just buy a bag or two of their soil, tbh. XD I might just call them tomorrow and see if they sell it.
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