what's going on with these lithops?

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tomo
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:32 am
Location: Florida

what's going on with these lithops?

Post by tomo »

I just ordered these lithops (and a few others), they were shipped to me bare roots and I repotted them today. I'm a beginner with lithops so I thought I'd post pics and ask for advice.

First up is the lesliei albinica. I guess it's normal for them to split like that? It's really cool looking! Since it's lost it's papery shell, should I start watering soon?

Next is the helmutii...it looks like there is a plant...inside a plant...inside a plant?! Like I said, total beginner here, so maybe this is all ho-hum normal but was curious what was going on, when to start watering, etc. :D
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lithop lesliei albinica mar 2015 roots.jpg
lithop lesliei albinica mar 2015 roots.jpg (48.76 KiB) Viewed 4371 times
lithop lesliei albinica mar 2015 repotted 1.jpg
lithop lesliei albinica mar 2015 repotted 1.jpg (67.01 KiB) Viewed 4371 times
lithop helmutii Mar 2015 repotted.jpg
lithop helmutii Mar 2015 repotted.jpg (95.64 KiB) Viewed 4371 times
iann
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by iann »

The Lithops lesliei isn't the greatest plant I've ever seen but looks pretty healthy. You got two for the price of one. You can tell from the flower that it was single last year, but now you have two heads. Hopefully two flowers in the autumn. Plant it, give it a couple of weeks since it might just have lost all its fine roots, and then you can water.

The L. helmutii is stacked. Too many leaves at once, basically due to too much water. This is a path that doesn't have a good ending. At the very least you need to get rid of the outer pair of leaves pretty quickly. Then see if you can burn off another pair to get back to one pair, the bright green leaves in the centre. If it doesn't seem to be happening, aim to do it next spring by making sure you don't over-inflate the whole thing doing into winter. This isn't the easiest species, it will cling onto old leaves for dear life because it comes from a climate with very harsh dry conditions. In your climate you may get better results by keeping it very, or completely, dry right through summer and just watering lightly from autumn into spring. Paradoxically they sometimes get rid of the old leaves more quickly if you water them, at the right time and obviously not too much, but enough that they aren't in a panic that they will never get water again. Whichever way you approach it you need to get rid of the oldest leaves each year or you'll end with with a tree. A dead tree :lol:
--ian
Onzuka
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by Onzuka »

So much to learn! At my rookie stage, I would have thought that the helmutii was strong and thriving. How wrong I would have been...

Steve
iann
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by iann »

Onzuka wrote:So much to learn! At my rookie stage, I would have thought that the helmutii was strong and thriving. How wrong I would have been...

Steve
It isn't *un*-healthy, but if you persist on that path it will suffer for it eventually.
--ian
tomo
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:32 am
Location: Florida

Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by tomo »

Iann, thanks so much for the advice. So it's not normal for the helmutii to look like that, that's good to know. It sounds like my best course of action would be not to water until maybe autumn, or it loses the outer leaves, which ever comes first. Err, crazy question, but I guess I shouldn't remove/cut the outer leaves myself, right?

Also appreciate the info about the lesliei. That's exciting it split into two heads! Wow, two flowers, that would be so
cool! :)

Is it true that a general rule of thumb is once the outer leaves have turned into papery shells, you can start watering? Out of the 5 lithops I have, only two have papery shells, so I guess those are the only two I will water for now while I watch the others.

Thanks again for the input! :D
iann
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by iann »

Cutting the outer leaves off is possible, but it is a bit of a desperation measure. If there are really tall outer leaves that are completely getting in the way of the new ones then you could at least cut the old leaves open to make room. Your plant isn't that bad, just slightly stacked. I don't know exactly how Lithops react in your humidity, but at least plenty of sun and warmth should make it easier to get rid of the old leaves. I'd still try to water it at least once before summer arrives.

I think a largely dry summer period for Lithops is a good idea in your climate, especially the winter rainfall species like L. helmutii, but leaving it entirely dry for almost a year sees unnecessarily harsh. Lithops can be prone to rotting if they are watered with really hot humid nights. A couple of dry months also tends to keep their clocks in sync and they'll be all the more ready to flower when the weather cools slightly and they get watered. Watch out for L. pseudotruncatella though, it is primed to flower in July, maybe even earlier, so you'll want it to have some water. My only experience of Lithops in this sort of climate was indoors with air-conditioning though, so I'm hardly an expert.

Yes, once the outer leaves go papery in spring then you can give at least one good deep watering to set up the new heads. In habitat this might not happen, but then the new heads might not emerge above ground level until the autumn which isn't usually what we want from our plants.
--ian
tomo
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:32 am
Location: Florida

Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by tomo »

Thanks for the info, Ian. Sounds like cutting the outer leaves is sort of a last resort, that's good to know I don't need to take such a drastic measure. I'll follow your advice re: watering and will hope they will lose those extra leaves naturally.

I should have mentioned earlier that I'm actually going to be growing the lithops indoor on a very sunny windowsill (I realized the patio outside had too much shade and I was worried about the humidity stressing out the lithops). I'm hoping by keeping them inside in a more climate-controlled setting, I won't have to worry too much about rot. :-k

Whoo, between the lithops and other new cacti I bought, I may have jumped into the deep end as a beginner, but I'm having fun and learning lots, thanks to all you kind people sharing your expertise! Thanks again! :D
iann
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by iann »

I only just noticed that is L. lesliei 'Albinica'. It will have white flowers which is something a bit different for L. lesliei.
albinica-1025.jpg
albinica-1025.jpg (54.58 KiB) Viewed 4291 times
--ian
tomo
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by tomo »

update! the helmutii is about the same--the inner-most leaves have grown a bit, and the outer leaves have shriveled a bit, but still a looong way to go before they turn any where near papery thin.

I've been watering the L. lesliei 'Albinica' and it seems to be growing...and really leaning towards the sunlight. I realized it looked too far out of the "ground", like it might even topple over, so a few days ago, I replanted it deeper into the pot. If it's leaning that much towards the sun, does that mean I should move it to a brighter windowsill?

Speaking of light, I have a Southern facing windowsill that gets a lot of intense afternoon sun, should I move all my lithops there?

Ian, thanks for posting the photo of L. lesliei 'Albinica'! wow, looks beautiful! hope I get to see mine bloom this year! :)
iann
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by iann »

Leaning Lithops, oh dear. They really need a lot of sun to do best (although watch out for overheating behind glass), but still leaning indicates a plant that is just too tall. You can always add a little extra grit around a Lithops that is too far out of the ground. It is hard to judge the natural height when you first plant, and it will change as the plant expands and contracts. The "natural" level would be underground when the plant is thirsty, but a little higher is nicer in a pot so you can see it. Wobbling about with the body mostly out of the soil is not healthy, the sides are not as tough as the tops and they will always be fighting you to try and hide.

Your description of "I've been watering" suggests to me more than once? In just over a month? You may have to rethink how often a Lithops needs to be watered. The right answer is somewhere between "never" and "rarely" :) An adult L. lesliei shouldn't need water more than once a month, and often a lot less. Water it well when it is thirsty and then forget about it. Don't be fooled into thinking that find wrinkles on the sides after a hot day indicate thirst, they are just a reaction to high heat, and watering in those conditions may actually be harmful. The height will shrink when they are thirsty, but they might not show wrinkles at all until they are really dehydrated. The tops also flatten out when they are thirsty and bulge when they drink. My photo shows a really fat condition ready for flowering, but most of the time they are flatter and this particular plant sinks right down to soil level or lower.

L. helmutii is always reluctant to lose old leaves. That's why I suggested you might not get rid of both sets this spring. They are hoarding because they know summer will be long, hot, and dry.
--ian
tomo
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by tomo »

Thanks for the post Ian. I was afraid leaning lithops wasn't a good sign, don't want them wobbling around! Err, I've watered them about every 10 days, sooo about three times in the past month? Eek! Now I see that's too much. #-o OK, I'll back off on the watering schedule, thanks for the advice! Here's a photo of what it looks like since I repotted it deeper a few days ago...

The second photo is about another one of my lithops, this was actually my first lithop and I posted a thread about it several months ago...here's what it looks like now, and then:

I haven't watered it in months so it's pretty wrinkly now but is it OK? It doesn't seem to be doing anything. I know sometimes lithops can look pretty bad and that's all part of their normal cycle, so just wanted to check.
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lithop lesliei albinica April 2015.jpg
lithop lesliei albinica April 2015.jpg (45.54 KiB) Viewed 4193 times
Lithop lesliei April 2015.jpg
Lithop lesliei April 2015.jpg (47.55 KiB) Viewed 4193 times
Lithop Jan 2015.jpg
Lithop Jan 2015.jpg (49.05 KiB) Viewed 4193 times
iann
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by iann »

I wouldn't water that Lithops for a while :) L. lesliei 'Albinica' always looks a bit anaemic, but that one looks particularly pale, giving the impression of insufficient sun. Might just be that particular plant, or the photo lighting. Other than that it seems to be doing fine, just let it get on with it.

The second (both photos of the same plant?) seems healthy enough. A normal L. lesliei? Has it not replaced its leaves this spring? It looks like it might not, so you'll just have to go straight into normal watering mode. Poor growing conditions last year might cause it to skip (no flowers either?), but L. lesliei nearly always replaces its leaves. The colour isn't very pretty, but that happens with old leaves so no need to panic. If the plant keeps those leaves for another 12 months, it isn't going to be winning and prizes for its looks.
--ian
iann
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by iann »

I just had a quick count up, and maybe 1% of my Lithops aren't yet showing new leaves. Probably half of those won't have new leaves at all this year, mostly difficult species that quite often skip a season. If you can't see bulging leaves inside the wrinkly one, it might be time to water.
--ian
tomo
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by tomo »

Right, I won't water the L. lesliei 'Albinica' for a while, lol. :lol: Good to know about the color too. I think I'll move it to a brighter window sill that gets more direct light and see if that helps.

Yes, the second and third photo are of the same lithop. The middle photo shows it now, in April, the last photo shows it back in January. I bought it online in December and watered it when I first bought it (d'oh!) so that may have messed up its cycle. I remember back then you and KittieKat gave me great advice re: repotting it in plastic, better soil, etc.--and come to think of it, when I replanted it, the roots system looked pretty sad. It never did lose the old leaves, no sign of new leaves, and I haven't watered it in months. So best course of action would be to water it now (about once a month?), back off in Summer, and start watering it again in Fall and hope it resumes the normal cycle? It is looking a little odd which had me a bit concerned--I don't mind as long as it's generally OK and not sick or anything serious. Your comment about it not winning any prizes for its looks made me laugh! :)

Hmm, just thought, our summer temps. here in Florida can last well into October--should I resume "Fall" watering when it starts to get a bit cooler, usually around mid-October/early-November?

Thanks again as always Ian for your expert advice! :D
iann
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Re: what's going on with these lithops?

Post by iann »

Sure, water it now and then wait and see what it does. Unless you think it has no roots, then wait until perhaps it has some. Maybe new leaves will show up very late, then you'll just have to deal with that. Old L. lesliei leaves are easy to burn off.

Lithops grow when nights are cool and days are sunny. They warm themselves up in the sun so daytime temperatures don't have to be very warm for them to grow. Hot sumid nights will make them sluggish and it's best to leave them alone when this happens, maybe just spray them to get them through it. L. lesliei is fairly tolerant of summer water, but don't be afraid to let it shrink. Sometimes the plants will tell you it is time by producing a bud, and that's certainly a time that you can water.
--ian
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